You obviously can’t do that when BAR is missing a whole tech level, new models will need to exist.

Don’t see the point in porting over a game that plays differently, is called differently, and looks differently. Just create a new game at that point.

Because doing that is going to end in BAR getting a cease and desist from Square Enix for using their platform to give away their IP for free.

worst t1 bomber worst t2 gunship worst destro worst frig worst cooper worst mobile shield worst hover tank

harb is beat t3 land unit not percy

broadsword and wailer are practically interchangeable

spearhead only good part of uef t3 land

ravager is ravager

novax does same intel as eye for 10x the cost yes

uef drone upgrade is dogwater and the worst acu upgrade next to aeon teleport

mavor is 3rd place in the list of game enders only ahead of scathis

fatboy is a joke and almost always worse than any other mainline land t4

you didnt even list good acu versatility, sera definitely the most versatile acu anyway

atlantis is only good because uef torp capacity is ass, shame it takes until t4 stage for uef to have a genuine response to subs

sparkies are good

if ur continental dropping percies ur losing more games than ur winning, 2 percies kill t2 mexes in one shot, 6 serves no additional purpose other than to get shot down by 6 asf and donate half a monkeylord to the enemy

If your best use case of 36k mass in your games is making a tool to eat thru the 7k hp of a t3 mex and the 9k hp mass of a t2 shield over the span of 75 seconds then you probably should have started an actual game ender and finished it in 5-6 minutes.

72k mass novax would quite literally never get made.

If you think floating 10k e is normal and expected behavior I think I found the reason for game loss and it had nothing to do with billy. Personally I never float above 2000 e at any moment as an air player and that would only be for maybe 20 seconds as another air fac finishes.

Nice comparison with Cyb laser, did you forget it’s 315k e to to build the launcher and 315k e to build the first billy and then 315k e to build every subsequent billy?

Yeah I choose broadswords. Are you just rallying them into armies or what? 10 broadswords will force an air fight anywhere and you can attack any point in the map and babysit them to heal damage. They compound, billies do not. Ironically enough UEF is the faction most stalled by billy, yeah. Problem of percies having zero initiative with movement so they must keep everything in one singular blob because t4s will catch them out of place. Not a problem with billy, it's a problem with percies being slower than every mainline t4 other than mega. Disagree with bricks, that's just a unit mix problem because loya shouldn't have a problem dealing with billy. Nobody wants to risk their 300k e investment just bouncing back to hit their own base.

I sure would hope TMD creep is a relatively bad counter. 5 billy nukes + the upgrade itself + t3 = washer in cost. Washer has 40% more area of impact, no cost for drops, and doesn't result in game loss if it dies. Imagine you could spend 500 mass to deal with washer. To keep this argumentation going, sam creep is also a shit ass counter to washer because it can edge bomb sams and the engineers building them. Except you know, it doesn't cost 300k e for every usage of this. It's annoying to keep sending more engies to continue the TMD creep, but it's a war of attrition you win because the enemy is spending 10,000 e a second to edge nuke some tmd.

Certainly don't mind nerfs to billy accommodated by relational price adjustments. I just think it's at a reasonable level of efficacy given its current price point and so long as that's carried through any change the upgrade remains viable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

This will help u learn how to define when things are OP. Every single billy generally equates to 5 broadswords. If you think 5 broadswords is worse than a billy you’re not based in reality. The only conclusion I have left is skill issue because the only way a player could grasp this conclusion as tenable is that they have their air factories set as a rally point into the enemy back base.

Is billy bad? No, there are game circumstances where it is the correct option within its price category. But in the vast majority of game states, you’d be better off just dumping 5 air facs worth of air into the game, building a land t4 (not fatboy), building a washer, or building a nuke.

Things wrong with this post:
blud is losing the equivalent of 50 harbs to 1 billy, have u tried not shift+g’ing ur army and leaving it idle

Billy has 4 HP, TML has 2 hp, 1 tmd kills a tml

TMD is 250 mass, billy is 3000 mass (each) + upgrade

Every billy is the e cost of a gc on top of that

You could support 5 air facs spamming nothing but t3 gunships for the relative cost of billy (10,000 e and 100 mass a second on a t3 ACU)

Stop playing lobbies where the game was won 8 minutes ago and people are choosing which flavor to win the game with and basing your takes on them.

You state
“Both units are equal in effectivness although they perform different functions they should still have the same costs or nerfed in one way or another.”

Why should they have the same cost? They have equal effectiveness.

Therefore, it should easily translate that since N = A for effectiveness and there is commonly a debate on 3A = M, you should also be able to have some debate on 3N = M, unless of course a novax is not equal to a t3 arty in effectiveness.

My point about it is that this is another nerf idea intended to remove novax from the game rather than actually do anything with the unit.

Yeah that’s completely true. I always see people debate if a mavor would be better than 3 novaxes the same way you see the debate on a mavor vs getting 3 t3 arty online. They’re practically equal in efficiency.

SMDs have never shot down novaxes. Likewise adding this cost to novax with nothing else immediately puts it into unviable territory. It would make zero sense to be making it over a nuke in nearly all use cases.

I’d probably aim for making its combat aspect revolve around being a support tool. Have it have the ability to stun either land or air units under it as some EMP satellite. Introduce the ability to make units move slower as the satellite disrupts communication in its area with the ACU. Mobile shields no longer work. Who knows.

It is currently an air unit. You know I thought the ground station actually had a ground background on its icon but no, it’s also got an air background. I wonder what theater GPG intended this unit to fill?

Nothing I said is contradictory. It currently operates as an air unit substitute. Arguing that novax being an intel structure is “good enough” means that the eye also needs to be considered an air substitute. I have used and seen the eye used for intel magnitudes more times than novax. Likewise for soothsayer. Wanna know why? Because that’s the main purpose of the unit and it’s priced with that intention. That’s how much the intel is worth. Nobody is paying 36k mass for a novax to explore the map. This value sits at around 8k mass, it’s not even in the realm of reason to go beyond 12k which is still half the cost of even the cheapest t4.

My point is you want to move it from being an air t4 substitute into a t3 intel structure that 2 other factions already have. That’s not a t4, that’s a t3 unit. It won’t be a t4 because it isn’t even worth half a monkeylord for what it does in that purpose. The mass cost I’m giving is already accounting for the fact it has the flexibility of both eye and soothsayer. That’s why it’s in that 8k mass cost area. Thinking that requires it to be 5x the cost of both of these units combined? That’s just not based in reality.

“in the real world” mass efficacy matters and paying half a t3 arty for cool moving soothsayer is a game loss unless you had a 20% mass generation advantage and already won the game 5 minutes ago.

Either you want to decrease it to 8k and make it a t3 unit, removing a t4 by function or you want to keep it the same cost and remove it by practicality. They’re both terrible options because it’s removing a problem by removing the unit. UEF losing their air t4 substitute requires compensation elsewhere or it needs to be done in a manner that maintains some sort of tangible t4 purpose.

I mean you can personally think that, but that’s like thinking a 2000 mass harb isn’t overpriced. You’re completely inefficient with your resources, this is the cost of like 100 spy planes. Nobody is paying this and getting a good deal out of it, this would immediately
become the least built T4 in the game by a completely ridiculous degree.

Novax is the air t4 substitute. I fail to see how that’s confusing. Every faction has a land and air t4. It’s pricepoint has always been closer to air t4s than to t3 arty. You can both see the satellite has the sky background on the unit card same as all other air units and you can clearly see in the unitdb that it’s categorized as an air unit.

Yes it functions differently, but it’s the air t4 substitute for UEF.

@Dorset said in Another Novax conversation:

Clearly there would have to be an adjustment to the cost of it because that 36k includes the laser, I try not to state the obvious when I'm speaking.

One thing is for sure. It seems pretty clear that it needs a rework. Been a hot topic for the 6 years I've been playing and nothing's been done about it.

The adjustment would be making it like 30k mass cheaper. It’s not a t4. You made a t4 unit a t3 unit.

It’s a combination of a soothsayer and an eye, nobody would be paying anything higher than 8k mass for this.

And doing this, now you need to explain what UEF compensation is for having no air t4.

Eye: 3k mass
Novax: 36k mass

You can’t fathom why one might be worth building and one wouldn’t?

SMD killable novax on top of a rebuild cost increase? It being shot down by SMD itself would already make the unit completely unviable

The hell am I paying 36k mass for a unit that might kill a few mexes or win an arty war 15 minutes from now instead of an SML and 2 nukes from it?

Novax being pure intel isn’t a t4, it’s just the UEF eye and would deserve to be moved for the same reason salvation got moved into t4 tier.

How is UEF the exception? Janus are easier to ACU snipe with than notha, I’ve quite literally survived against a 75 notha snipe that did try to take advantage of groundfire.

If you’re dying to gunships that’s a personal issue, you need like 3x the mass in gunships once there are 3 flak near an ACU and they cant quickly snipe flak the way bombers could get away with before retreating out. The exception being Aeon gunship.

By the time there is 4-5 t2 bombers, you absolutely should have had flak near your ACU. I don’t know what games you’re playing but a normal t2 land timing in a teamgame is like min 6 or 7 and if you wanted to hard rush t2 air the earliest you’ll manage it is min 5 and you need to make a t2 pgen on top of that.