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    The current pre-release of the client ("pioneer" in the version) is only compatible to itself. So you can only play with other testers. Please be aware!

    Fix cybran T3 shielding

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Balance Discussion
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    • waffelzNoobW Offline
      waffelzNoob
      last edited by

      Cybran engineers/acus with T3 build suite have the ED4 shield available to them, which can be upgraded to ED5, but either one of them are awful.
      Aeon 18k HP 2400 mass
      UEF 17k HP 3300 mass
      Sera 21k HP 3600 mass
      Cybran 16.5k HP 4260 mass (or 13k HP 2460 mass)

      This is either way too weak for its mass cost or way too expensive for its shield HP. To keep in line with cybran shielding being weaker (like in T2), I'd suggest making ED5 the main blueprint for T3 buildpower and reducing the build costs for ED5.

      this is the simple solution, alternatively you could rework all of cybran shield's phases because as it stands now, upgrading them is a massive scam

      frick snoops!

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 8
      • ? Offline
        A Former User
        last edited by

        Strong elsewhere.

        waffelzNoobW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • B Offline
          BrainDeadCommand
          last edited by

          have better shields<hives

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • waffelzNoobW Offline
            waffelzNoob @Guest
            last edited by waffelzNoob

            @melanol said in Fix cybran T3 shielding:

            Strong elsewhere.

            Balance team thankfully doesn't have the same mindset as you, as they buffed the aeon frigate despite aeon having the strongest destroyer.

            @protect said in Fix cybran T3 shielding:

            have better shields<hives

            T1 engy 52/5 = 10.4 mass/bp --- T1 hive 350/20 = 17.5 mass/bp
            T2 engy 130/13 = 10 mass/bp --- T2 hive 700/37 = 18.91 mass/bp
            T3 engy 312/32 = 9.75 mass/bp --- T3 hive 1050/50 = 21 mass/bp

            T3 engy is more than 2x efficient than a T3 hive at this point. Hives do have longer range and don't suffer from pathfinding issues, but in arty wars you generally have most important stuff under 1 or 2 shields, and assisting one or both with T3 engies is completely viable

            Besides, tech can be shared. Having hives can be nice, but the existence of hives do not make T3 engineers completely redundant. Other faction's T3 shields however do make cybran shields completely redundant, and pretty much forces cybran players to ask for other tech if it comes to arty wars.

            I've also sandboxed that Cybran shields cost more mass to repair than aeon (didn't test UEF or sera).
            After taking T3 pgen explosion damage (5500), 10 Hives used 992 mass to repair an ED5, while they used 906 mass to repair an aeon T3 shield.

            frick snoops!

            ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • ComradeStrykerC Offline
              ComradeStryker
              last edited by

              How much cheaper are you suggesting the ED5 be?
              -500 mass?
              -1,000 mass?


              ~ Stryker

              ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

              waffelzNoobW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • waffelzNoobW Offline
                waffelzNoob @ComradeStryker
                last edited by

                @comradestryker idk, up to balance team. It should probably be comparable to UEF's 3300 since HP and range are both quite similar, if im not mistaken

                frick snoops!

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • ComradeStrykerC Offline
                  ComradeStryker
                  last edited by ComradeStryker

                  Any specific reduction in mass / resources that you have in mind?
                  5%? 10%? 15%?

                  I like your idea of making the ED5 the standard blueprint, however...
                  I'm not too sure you want to increase the Cybran's Mass to SHP efficiency, dramatically.
                  Cybrans, even with their higher mass cost at a glance; they still have quite efficient shields for what they're worth.

                  For example, the UEF has the least efficient shields with their high costs and low SHP to compensate.

                  Cybrans, may have high mass costs, but their SHP is higher than that of a UEF shield.


                  ~ Stryker

                  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • waffelzNoobW Offline
                    waffelzNoob
                    last edited by

                    It's 16.5k for cyb to 17k for uef, while cyb costs 4260 and uef 3300

                    frick snoops!

                    ComradeStrykerC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • ? Offline
                      A Former User @waffelzNoob
                      last edited by

                      @waffelznoob said in Fix cybran T3 shielding:

                      Balance team thankfully doesn't have the same mindset as you, as they buffed the aeon frigate despite aeon having the strongest destroyer.

                      Exodus:

                      • HP: 7500 > 7200
                      • Range: 80 > 70
                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • waffelzNoobW Offline
                        waffelzNoob
                        last edited by

                        Exodus was so stacked it still is the strongest destroyer lol

                        frick snoops!

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • ComradeStrykerC Offline
                          ComradeStryker @waffelzNoob
                          last edited by ComradeStryker

                          @waffelznoob said in Fix cybran T3 shielding:

                          It's 16.5k for cyb to 17k for uef, while cyb costs 4260 and uef 3300

                          Is the extra mass worth an instant refresh on the SHP?
                          I say it is very much worth it. Cybrans have one of the best shields, because of that ability.
                          They upgrade, and they refresh their shield HP.

                          Granted, they're not the cheapest when it comes to their shields, but that gives them more flexability and longevity, especially when it comes down to protecting a valuable target.
                          The shield may have been depleted, and offline, but now it isn't.


                          If you make the ED5 Blueprint the standard instead of the ED4: Shield refreshes will be seen a few less times.
                          So, this could make a decent reason to lower the Cybran's Shields costs globally.

                          Perhaps, reduce the costs of the, ED4, and ED5 by 5% each? As a player upgrades them, the savings stack, meaning you end up saving more than just the 5% of each tier. That would make the ED5 shield about. 7-10% cheaper, in total?


                          ~ Stryker

                          ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • MachM Offline
                            Mach
                            last edited by

                            I would once again suggest removing instant full hp on shield upgrade and have it keep its current hp upon upgrade but get a new maximum

                            it makes no sense it does that and makes it better to keep shields on 99% upgrade to suddenly reload them if they get low by upgrading

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • FtXCommandoF Offline
                              FtXCommando
                              last edited by

                              anybody doing that micro is a genetic freak

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • waffelzNoobW Offline
                                waffelzNoob
                                last edited by

                                1. having enough bp to spend 1800 mass inbetween t3 arty/mavor shots sounds pretty unrealistic
                                2. it is a one-time thing, u can not repeat it for future arty shells
                                3. nobody does that with ED4 -> ED5 shields lol

                                5-10% is not enough. Give me one good reason as to why T3 cybran shields should be both weaker and more expensive.

                                frick snoops!

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • ThomasHiattT Offline
                                  ThomasHiatt
                                  last edited by

                                  UEF is strong alpha faction and cybran is weak nerds.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                  • MachM Offline
                                    Mach
                                    last edited by

                                    weak nerds... with lasers

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • B Offline
                                      BrainDeadCommand
                                      last edited by BrainDeadCommand

                                      @waffelzNoob bro i think you should be on the balance team. enough said, you are right ahah

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • B Offline
                                        Blodir
                                        last edited by

                                        Only tangentially related and idk if I'm the only one who thinks this, but shield assisting with 10 hives is lame af. Building a good simcity with lots of t3 shields should be more efficient than putting ur mavor under 1 shield assisted by 10 hives

                                        B JipJ maudlin27M 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                        • B Offline
                                          Blodir @Blodir
                                          last edited by

                                          @blodir said in Fix cybran T3 shielding:

                                          Only tangentially related and idk if I'm the only one who thinks this, but shield assisting with 10 hives is lame af. Building a good simcity with lots of t3 shields should be more efficient than putting ur mavor under 1 shield assisted by 10 hives

                                          And while we're at it, the engis/hives shouldn't stop assisting once the shield is at full hp. It just forces u to stare at ur hives for the rest of the game in an arty/sat war

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • JipJ Offline
                                            Jip @Blodir
                                            last edited by Jip

                                            @blodir said in Fix cybran T3 shielding:

                                            Only tangentially related and idk if I'm the only one who thinks this, but shield assisting with 10 hives is lame af. Building a good simcity with lots of t3 shields should be more efficient than putting ur mavor under 1 shield assisted by 10 hives

                                            At the moment overspill works such that:

                                            • shield that is hit takes full damage
                                            • on top of that, surrounding shields take a bit of that damage too

                                            But we can change it to:

                                            • shield that takes full damage disperses it over neighboring shields, depending on distance to that shield

                                            That way it is better to have a lot of shields than having 1 shield being assisted. It would also add a lot of value to the lower tier cybran shields: they collapse sooner due to the dispersion damage and can recover quickly to support the higher tech shields again

                                            And while we're at it, the engis/hives shouldn't stop assisting once the shield is at full hp. It just forces u to stare at ur hives for the rest of the game in an arty/sat war

                                            Engine behavior I'm afraid

                                            A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

                                            B waffelzNoobW 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
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