M28AI Devlog (v230)
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I've been playing as the AI vs itself a lot, (so much fun for me, ai on, and ai status inherit on) and I've noticed that the ai when it's on my side controlling my army it's pretty terrible at reclaim and economy. Like it should imo with t1 builders always try to build mexes and reclaim anytime something is in range if there's storage space for it. Is this intentional? Also it seems to takes forever to upgrade mexes. I watch a lot of gyle recasts when I'm not playing the ai vs itself with me as a backseat driver, for context. P.S. I'm doing this on tournament 10km generated maps also fwiw, 1v1.
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@innomen I’d expect it to build mexes and get reclaim if it has control of all engineers in the area (assuming it is low on mass and there aren’t nearby enemy units).
Mex upgrades are generally not sought after/prioritised in 1v1 as on 10km maps prioritising t1 tank spam is usually better.
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@maudlin27 So it is intentional, oky, seems like I always die with a tapped mass bar. Oh well. My impression is very different. I'd focus econ and air control, since that seems to win replays. but I'm clearly not the expert XD Thanks again for making this
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@maudlin27 FWIW neroxis_map_generator_1.12.3_jr5vbqk53twfc_aiiaeaq_aaaaaadg6msjk
(unexplored 20x20) 1v1 me vs ai really didn't like the map. Is this a known thing? perhaps because unexplored?
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In what way did it not like the map, and do you have a replay id?
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v128 Update
16 changes and fixes, including:- Reducing the number of naval factories that get built
- Factored in mobile shields when assessing how strong an enemy naval force is
- Made the naval combat logic more detailed so it is more likely to take into account units that are relatively near it when deciding what to do
- 7 LOUD specific changes, including fixing an incompatibility resulting from the latest LOUD 7.10 release, and fixing an issue that meant M28's ACUs would be overly aggressive.
Acknowledgements
- Vortex - several LOUD replays, including one highlighting M28's ACU being too aggressive
- c04spoon - replay highlighting various torpedo bomber related issues
- GerJS - Noting that with particular game settings M28 would prevent one of the objectives loading on UEF M6
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@maudlin27 It took forever to do the first analysis and every few seconds it froze. no replay, it was unplayable, also ai games don't get recorded, that's why I linked the map name so you could reproduce it. Also, I think the crab is bugged, egg units don't inherit AI status.
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@innomen Looking into it this is an issue with how MapGen defines the playable area on such maps (in that it starts with no playble area, which then causes an issue for FAF's navigational mesh logic). Jip's kindly offered to look into it further.
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v129 Update
22 changes and fixes, including:
- Increased options for the AIx overwhelm modifier to allow smaller AIx modifier adjustments (+/- 0.05, 0.02 and 0.01)
- Increased cruiser production in certain scenarios to protect from torp bombers
- Fixed a bug where M28Easy would ground-fire subs
- 11 LOUD specific adjustments (including support for bombardment ships, not treating engineering ships like frigates, a bug that prevented M28 recognising when its naval units shots were being blocked by terrain, and some logic that in some cases may have caused desyncs)
Acknowledgements
- GerJS - Replay with M28Easy ground-firing subs
- Vortex - LOUD replay
- Innomen – Highlighting a bug with unexplored mapgen maps
- Zhanghm – noting an issue where in modded games only the megalith would be built by Cybrans in some cases despite unit prioritisation being turned off
- c04spoon – tips on what naval units work best in a bombardment type role
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@maudlin27 Child units are not inheriting AI status. novax sats sit there, eggs, and fatboy outputs. FWIW
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Hi @maudlin27, a few issues I've noticed with M28, usually when using the MOBA mode:
- AI spawns a lot of scouts early on - sometimes dozens. I've had some games where it won't build any tanks for 5 minutes or so (will build AA and artillery though).
- AI will upgrade all mexes from T2 -> T3 at once, causing a massive and persistent mass crash. Could be reclaim related? Eg I collect a bunch of reclaim, the AI queues up mex upgrades, but doesn't pause them when mass flows drop again? See this replay as an example I think: #23420048.
- Aeon AI will get stuck in a loop of building T2 shields, destroying them, then rebuilding T2 (instead of presumably the intended T3). See this replay for an example: #23420639. About 1:10 onwards, near my com in the centre left of the map.
Thanks for your work on this! The new MOBA mode has gotten one of my friends to pick up the game again
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@sioloc Thanks I'll have a look, although I'd need a replay re the scouts to see if it's working as intended or not (it likely is, since it relies heavily on intel so prioritises building lots of scouts in the early game; while for Aeon it can also build extra scouts to use as combat units)
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@sioloc said in M28AI Devlog (v129):
AI will upgrade all mexes from T2 -> T3 at once, causing a massive and persistent mass crash. Could be reclaim related? Eg I collect a bunch of reclaim, the AI qu
I think this was your teammate the first time - M28's logs for upgrading a unit didn't trigger when 4 t2 mexes were started at your teammate's base.
For your mexes, the issue is as a whole your team had lots of T3 mexes, and lots of mass stored (as your teammate had about 3k mass while you had none) - so M28 started upgrading multiple T3 mexes on the basis the mass from your teammate could fund it.
I'll tweak it in the next version so in MOBA mode M28's team resource sharing logic is enabled (which should largely mitigate such issues). It'll still be a problem in non-MOBA teamgames with shared armies though (where a teammate with lots of mass and/or T3 mexes will result in too many of your mexes being upgraded if the teammate sits on the mass instead of sharing). I can't see an easy solution to that though, as in many cases people wouldn't want the 'share resources' team logic to trigger.Re the T2 shields being destroyed this looks like a problem with its backup shielding logic where a shield that is 99% complete is being completed (when that should only happen when under enemy artillery fire), I'll see if I can fix for the next update.
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v30 Update
24 misc changes and fixes, including:
- Improved kiting for frigates/navy generally vs enemy hover and when bombarding shorelines
- Fixed several issues with shared armies where certain units (novax, fatboy) wouldn't benefit from the inherit status game option
- Mobile shields should be less likely to suicide into enemy units
- Asfs should be less likely to suicide into enemy air units at the enemy base
- Fixed a bug for SMD where M28 would always think the enemy had a nuke launcher (and so build a pre-emptive SMD too soon)
- 4 LOUD specific changes, including reducing one of the MML builders where the enemy has TMD
Acknowledgements
- C04spoon – Identifying and providing a fix for a case where T2 arti shots could miss M28 units in LOUD
- Vortex – LOUD replay
- PurpleMossClump – LOUD replay
- Azraeelian Angel – LOUD replay
- RD – various LOUD replays
- Sioloc – replay where M28 would destroy and rebuild the same shield
- Innomen – Highlighting that inherit army status wouldn’t work for novaxes and fatboys
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Heyyo Maudin. Thanks to also release the M28 for Steam , but I encountered with one problem . I'm using the Steam FA, with various mods of course + Sorian AI as well, but the UEF T2 Engineering Suite (The Kennel), when built, messes the bottom interface, you can select it, but actually the interface is missing, and I cannot upgrade it, checked the T2 Cybran E.S. The hive, there was no problems with it, neither with the T3 Kennel, only with the T2 one. And it was working properly until I installed the M28. Can you look for some solutions for me ? Cheers: Mr.P. PS: I'm using the latest M28 for Steam what I found on ModDB.
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Also the AEON T4 CZAR unit seems to be broken with M28 , because when it finished, opens up and start firing to the ground, because of this, its utterly vulnerable to air and seems idiotic. Also it doesn't seem like to use units from Xtreme Wars, what is my ALL TIME favourite...
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@mrphalanx I'll look into the kennel unit to see if I can reproduce and fix the issue for the next release. In respect of the Czar I'm not clear on what the issue is from your description - I'll run a sandbox test to see if there's anything obvious in how it attacks units, but I'd have expected it to be vulnerable to enemy air units (as it's primarily an anti-ground unit)
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@maudlin27 Thanks for the answer mate. The problem with the CZAR is that is the AI automatically puts it into planetary annihilator mode (that means when the carrier opens up) right after it built it. And when in planetary annihilator mode, it cannot attack aircraft, the Sorian ai only opens it up when reached an enemy base/ cluster of units...
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And I know maybe I'm asking too much, but can't you make at least a M28 -Experimental, what can focus on even T1 Experimentals from the start ? Because now the AI only after reaching T3 starts to build T1 Experimentals slowly (mostly from Total Mayhem, but there is plenty T1 in Xtreme Wars too), almost none of T2 Experimentals, and a ton of T3 Experimentals. Sorian AI does this part mostly properly, the only problem with it that sometimes it even rushes to build a T1 Exp, even to an extent to it forgets to build a proper economy/minimal base defenses.. Your AI is way better at this, but it does a little slowly, okay I did not use the AIX, just the AI(Turtle, Rush, Etc...).
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I want to make clear the CZAR problem, I looked into it, when it opens up it still can fire an air unit, that's not a problem, the problem is, when your AI builds it, it AUTOMATICALLY FORCE ATTACK GROUND, so because of this, the unit cannot attack anything other land. Sorian AI has no problems using it properly.