FAF Beta - Feedback
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@thewheelie said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
Hives get nerfed to be as strong as kennels
So, when does other factions get hives/kennels? Because now it seems like endless making UEF stronger and other factions weaker.
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When uef get's an above 5% pickrate in tourneys.
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@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
@zeldafanboy said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
I don't get why the Loyalist lost the ability to redirect Billy nukes.
It’s as though you add a 5% chance that Cybran laser kills your ACU if you cause a chain pgen explosion.
You’re paying half a million e in the missile + upgrade and risk getting a missile you can’t interact with sent back to you (which you paid for).
I'll necro-quote this. If it's unfair that Cybran armies have once-in-a-blue-moon protection from Billies, then please remove omni from the GC. It's the only experimental that can't be ambushed by a cloak + mazer ACU. Why invest >1M energy into it if there's a chance the enemy team made a GC instead of ML/Mega/Chicken/Fatboy?
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Honestly wouldn't mind that ye
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@wikingest said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
@thewheelie said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
Hives get nerfed to be as strong as kennels
Because now it seems like endless making UEF stronger and other factions weaker.
Just one example rn:
Totally useless ACU upgrades with not even a little bit of niche by factions:
UEF: 3 (4 if u want to count the drones as separate)
Aeon: 1
Cybran: 0
Seraphim: 0 -
T Tagada unpinned this topic on
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@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
Totally useless ACU upgrades with not even a little bit of niche by factions:
UEF: 3 (4 if u want to count the drones as separate)Looking back at our "discussions", you saying so, I suppose that it is a proof that all UEF ACU upgrades are good. But your very vague statement does not matter really. The amount of ACU upgrades does not mean necessarily that one faction is better. By the way UEF has 3 more than CYB.
So at this point ladder statistics gives us 1697 games UEF, 1346 Cybran, 712 Seraphim, 569 Aeon. (Top right side)
https://kazbek.github.io/FAF-Analytics/ladder
Let's see how this will develop with time, after those balance modifications.Does anybody know, can we see the same statistics about multiplayer? And is there a statistics somewhere about past tourneys?
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I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’ve made suggestions for all of UEF’s terrible upgrades to be viable.
And you seem to miss the point. UEF got buffed this patch because it has either interesting ways to exemplify faction identity (sparky, jamming) or just completely terrible units (destro). The UEF ACU example is a situation where UEF would in turn see a slew of buffs compared to other factions, because their ACU upgrades are in the worst situation of all the factions. Crying about it is weird because it just infers you’d rather UEF stick to having useless upgrades never seen in a serious game because you have some strange need to see 1-for-1 buffs like factions are at perfect equilibrium already.
Also nice meme using game counts. All those 0 rated and sub 10 game players choosing a faction because of their deep nuanced take on the meta, right? Great data point.
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@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
The UEF ACU example is a situation where UEF would in turn see a slew of buffs compared to other factions, because their ACU upgrades are in the worst situation of all the factions.
Cybran ACU exists. I'd happily trade an upgrade set with 3 useless upgrades over one with zero survivability, clashing core upgrades, zero usefulness in late T2/T3 phase and the strong lategame stuff putting the cardboard ACU in harm's way.
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There is not only 0 rated players in statistics. If someone brings out high rated play, then you pretend, that high rated players deliberatly play trash tactics. If someone brings out overall statistics, then you pretend that all low rated players for some reason deliberatly use worst faction just to mess with you?
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@wikingest No they just use more popular/visually appealing faction (uef and cybran), thats why using statistic including all players is incorrect related to faction strength. And there is also question regarding correlation between faction strength and its popularity.
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@mazornoob said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
The UEF ACU example is a situation where UEF would in turn see a slew of buffs compared to other factions, because their ACU upgrades are in the worst situation of all the factions.
Cybran ACU exists. I'd happily trade an upgrade set with 3 useless upgrades over one with zero survivability, clashing core upgrades, zero usefulness in late T2/T3 phase and the strong lategame stuff putting the cardboard ACU in harm's way.
Nah, you wouldn’t. Cybran getting UEF treatment would put laser on chest, make cloak cause the units in an engie’s build range around your ACU to go invisible while keeping your ACU visible, and then ruin torp launcher by turning it into as expensive as a salem but only doing torp defense. Pay for it twice and you shoot torps, but they drain -15 mass a second as you shoot.
But, you would get to combine t2 and gun so that’s sick.
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@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
@mazornoob said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
The UEF ACU example is a situation where UEF would in turn see a slew of buffs compared to other factions, because their ACU upgrades are in the worst situation of all the factions.
Cybran ACU exists. I'd happily trade an upgrade set with 3 useless upgrades over one with zero survivability, clashing core upgrades, zero usefulness in late T2/T3 phase and the strong lategame stuff putting the cardboard ACU in harm's way.
Nah, you wouldn’t. Cybran getting UEF treatment would put laser on chest, make cloak cause the units in an engie’s build range around your ACU to go invisible while keeping your ACU visible, and then ruin torp launcher by turning it into as expensive as a salem but only doing torp defense.
But, you would get to combine t2 and gun so that’s sick.
You seem to be UEF-blind:
- UEF can combine T2 + gun if you want to push then build, or be able to quickly build defenses after pushing. Cybran can't.
- UEF can get nano + gun for a setup roughly equivalent to Cybran stealth + gun.
- UEF can get a shield and push at late T2/early T3. Cybran can't.
- UEF can get an ACU TML and kill enemy mexes from any angle they please. Cybran can't.
- With shield + gun, UEF can defend against small Percie armies. Try fighting 4 percies as Cybran with lazer or 2 percies against a microing player and tell me how it goes.
- UEF can fight T3 armies with billy nukes. Cybran can't unless they get both lazer and cloak, and there's still a risk of getting groundfired.
What Cybran can do that UEF can't:
- Fight navy, on smaller ponds and before mid-T2. Stray from these conditions and you'll get torped. Arguably a tradeoff for not having hover.
- Mazer com-drop. Something nobody except me ever does because of how risky it is.
- Mazer + cloak. Unless the other team is retarded and doesn't have omni by the time I spent >1M energy, only usable defensively.
- Telemazer. Nerfed to accomodate Setons, usually a desperation move and a one-way trip.
I'd happily give up all of these in exchange for a com that isn't relegated back to base by late T2 land. I'm not saying that all UEF ACU upgrades are good, just that calling UEF ACU the worst just because some of them suck is plain stupid.
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@Tomma I have no information about people choosing faction based on visuals (althought I dont say that it cant exist at all, it can, and in medium and high rated also). I chose the faction I thought was best when I started. And all new players with who I have spoken, it was kind of the same. It is quite common questions like: "Is this faction the best?", "What is best faction?", "What faction should I play?", "Is x faction stronger than y?" etc. Those are common discussions with lower rated players. Also, every time I said in the lobby to low rated player, that his faction is hard to play/ weak/ bad for the spot, they always changed the faction.
I agree with you, that there is correlation between faction strenght and its popularity, and people choosing based on popularity, makes statistics only stronger.
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@mazornoob said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
@mazornoob said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
@ftxcommando said in FAF Beta - Feedback:
The UEF ACU example is a situation where UEF would in turn see a slew of buffs compared to other factions, because their ACU upgrades are in the worst situation of all the factions.
Cybran ACU exists. I'd happily trade an upgrade set with 3 useless upgrades over one with zero survivability, clashing core upgrades, zero usefulness in late T2/T3 phase and the strong lategame stuff putting the cardboard ACU in harm's way.
Nah, you wouldn’t. Cybran getting UEF treatment would put laser on chest, make cloak cause the units in an engie’s build range around your ACU to go invisible while keeping your ACU visible, and then ruin torp launcher by turning it into as expensive as a salem but only doing torp defense.
But, you would get to combine t2 and gun so that’s sick.
I'd happily give up all of these in exchange for a com that isn't relegated back to base by late T2 land. I'm not saying that all UEF ACU upgrades are good, just that calling UEF ACU the worst just because some of them suck is plain stupid.
I wrote a giant response to the points but I figured it doesn’t really matter since the points are tertiary. I never argued UEF has the weakest ACU. It’s obvious Cybran does. I argued that UEF has the most useless upgrades, which it does. I can very easily give replays and utility explanations for every upgrade that isn’t:
UEF teleport, drones, bubble shield, or Aeon teleport.Far as I see it, it comes down to this:
- You can disagree with the premise that the upgrades are useless
- You can argue to simply remove these noobtrap upgrades which provide no utility and only present false choices
- You can argue about reforms that make them worth building but not oppressive
You mistake me arguing for these upgrades to be adjusted as finding UEF inferior as an ACU. I just want false choices removed from the game, I don’t care if that necessitates buffing other stuff as externalities.
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Common sub 1k rated takes:
- Cybran has the best destro
- Percy is the best t3 land unit
- UEF is the defensive faction
- Aeon sucks at t2 land stage
- Aeon sucks at t1 land stage
- UEF has the best t3 navy
- Seraphim has the best t2 land stage
- t2 air can’t do anything
How are dudes with these opinions going to result in gauging the best faction? Faction popularity is a mixture of perceived strength, sample history in preference, actual strength, aesthetic value, and so on.
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Never heard any of them tell that Cybran has the best destro, everybody told that Aeon had the best destro. Pretending, that people are stupid and dont learn, based on your own inventions is very low and does not add anything to the discussion.
If people pick random faction or faction randomly, then it does not change which faction is more used in statistics. It only makes differences in game numbers smaller.
There can be multiple reasons to pick a faction, as already said, but for my knowledge by far biggest is the faction strenght, glad to see that you now suddenly recognise that the actual strenght of the faction is also considered in lower rated group, when picking a faction. Meaning that it can carry even more in direction of best faction.
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I hear it all the time in the training channel, so cool the ego bud
Also had to explain it several times on Twitch when me and Farm talk about balance
Low rated players pick what is best based on their competency and perceived play. This is not the game taken to its limit. Literally every intro guide to FAF out there explains to new players to avoid Aeon because their tanks require a bit more effort to manage in game. Meanwhile, Aeon is the strongest faction in general utility in last patch’s meta. They’re still probably the strongest until chrono and gc get adjusted.
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how could you say drones on acu are useless without even a niche application?
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This post is deleted! -
I can say it insanely easily. A drone requires as much mass as a t1 transport with the e cost of an int while keeping your ACU idle (typically during the start of the game) and instantly dying to any stray int which in turn results in a rebuild making you pay double the cost of a transport and the e cost of a transport.
There is 1 situation for a drone to be good. A mapper making a horrible map with mexes on plateaus or crevices that are too tiny to drop unless you click on a precise spot. But those maps get actively pruned by matchmaker standards and I don’t think anyone disagrees with that being a good thing.
There is zero reason to make the first drone other than it being funny, but even if you want to talk about being too lazy to drop 2 loose mexes as it being a viable tool, the 2nd drone serves zero function in aiding that purpose.
If somebody int rushed you when you made drone, it’s quite literally a lose condition.
