Remove rating from (default) scoreboard

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It might work for 1v1 ladder, but would be really bad for teamgames, since it gives a big advantage to people who recognise the enemy team names and know how strong they are.

E.g. you might deliberately choose not to kill the low ranked player on their team, and also know that you'll need to support your ally if they're against a much higher ranked opponent.

So you either need to remove names as well as ranks for teamgames (which causes separate issues) so there is no way to tell who the strong players are on the enemy team (other than by what they do in game), or you need to leave ratings in for anything other than 1v1s

M27AI developer; Devlog and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v41-devlog

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Good idea!
with my low rating, I "feel" like I am sniped early in multiplayers custom games.
But it's maybe just a feeling...

3

It should come down to these simple facts:

  1. Is this information a competitive advantage - yes
  2. Can I get this information through other means (alt tabbing or pulling up aeolus or Discord on my 2nd monitor to search up ratings, using Supreme Scoreboard) - yes

These two facts mean that people will be looking up this information at game start to maximize their advantages, and by forcing people to go around the game and alt tab while their factory is building to go farm some aeolus excel sheets is not an enjoyable experience. So either people need to make it impossible for anybody to access information about player ratings through the API or the client in general or it should just be kept the way it is.

The only other option is to go the GW path of just randomizing names alongside not showing rating, but this seems terrible as a user experience thing when you're a new player trying to find a community on the game but every game is against some random RNG seed that you have no history with.

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@ftxcommando said in Remove rating from (default) scoreboard:

It should come down to these simple facts:

  1. Is this information a competitive advantage - yes
  2. Can I get this information through other means (alt tabbing or pulling up aeolus or Discord on my 2nd monitor to search up ratings, using Supreme Scoreboard) - yes

These two facts mean that people will be looking up this information at game start to maximize their advantages, and by forcing people to go around the game and alt tab while their factory is building to go farm some aeolus excel sheets is not an enjoyable experience. So either people need to make it impossible for anybody to access information about player ratings through the API or the client in general or it should just be kept the way it is.

The only other option is to go the GW path of just randomizing names alongside not showing rating, but this seems terrible as a user experience thing when you're a new player trying to find a community on the game but every game is against some random RNG seed that you have no history with.

I would say that it does not create competitive advantage we have no prof of it that it does we can only say for sure that that it makes game more aggressive and more hostile towards players who dont preform according to the rating.

As for you second point yes you can dig up the information but unless you are tryhard would you even do it? Would you even want to go trough that laborious task? Especially now that "Mirror balance" is more often used as the way to balance out the games.

Also we need to consider who are we trying to help, who does not care and who affects the most.
Right now what i see is very vocal minority but it takes a while to find a ladder match, players are getting harassed over high expectations, infighting between teammates over who should listen who and people whining when they get low rated player on their team.

I do believe some solution is needed and i choose to believe it is the correct one.

Analyze, Adapt, Overcome...

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@hinthunter said in Remove rating from (default) scoreboard:

I would say that it does not create competitive advantage we have no prof of it that it does we can only say for sure that that it makes game more aggressive and more hostile towards players who dont preform according to the rating.

I know my air is 400 rating lower than enemy air, I now know a late t2 all in push is likely a mass donation and not worth my time because of this. If enemy team does not take the time to look up this advantage, they can not adjust tactics based on the strength of positions. You can already see this in high level teamgames especially sentons where an incredibly weak air slot will result in some sort of cheese to disrupt enemy air or some sort of long term macro play where torpageddon will not be enough to win a pond. Or you just have your rock also decide to go make t3 air.

As for you second point yes you can dig up the information but unless you are tryhard would you even do it? Would you even want to go trough that laborious task? Especially now that "Mirror balance" is more often used as the way to balance out the games.

Yeah? It's information that helps me. That's like saying "would you dig up the information to hydro rush, only if you're a dirty tryhard that's a lot of work to do and the default land fac 2 pgen 2 mex BO is still ok on hydro rush maps." Also most high level lobbies do not use mirror balance because it isn't fun and specifically removes the metagame aspect of having to adapt strategies based on slot strengths and weaknesses.

Also we need to consider who are we trying to help, who does not care and who affects the most.

That's what I did.

Right now what i see is very vocal minority but it takes a while to find a ladder match, players are getting harassed over high expectations, infighting between teammates over who should listen who and people whining when they get low rated player on their team.

There is no evidence that this decreases toxicity. This requires me to not adjust my gameplay based on expectations that rating gives me information about. Instead I now need to adjust my gameplay around the fact my air is making his 1st t2 pgen at minute 9 when I'm halfway to transitioning to my all in push and now I'm boned for the rest of the game. Does this sound like the beginning of a healthy community interaction for you?

I do believe some solution is needed and i choose to believe it is the correct one.

Great.

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@hinthunter said in Remove rating from (default) scoreboard:

Right now what i see is very vocal minority

trust me guys, the non vocal majority is on my side, definitely

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@jip said in Remove rating from (default) scoreboard:

This is the only real issue because our player base is relatively small. Other issues such as 'who to snipe' is, in my opinion, approaching the game wrong: don't snipe, just take out the base instead and then snipe. At that point there is no base to give.

Fullshare and its consequences have been a disaster for the FAF playerbase

put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

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@jip What do you think is easier? Looking at a single number that gives you a good approximation of how good a player is or looking at their base at min 4, 8, 12, etc., and use that information to extrapolate whether they are likely to lose their lane and require assistance?
I don't think hiding the rating is gonna solve much either. If you knew from the start your air player is probably going to lose air then you can adapt in advance and do something about it. If you look at min 11 and see he hasn't finished a T3 air HQ yet while his opponent is finishing a strat that's gonna kill your whole base it's a bit too late for that. And you can't possibly expect players to take the time to look around the bases of their teammates during the game to access how good they are doing. Players are not capable of that most of the time. I believe that if you don't manage expectations ergo. Show rating then you might end with more toxicity towards the players that lose their lanes.

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All matchmakers should have the opponents' names and ratings hidden, but not teammates. Custom games should have everyone's names and ratings visible.

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The root cause for toxicity around rating is toxic players, not that we show the rating. Hiding the rating will only fight the symptom. The toxic players will just continue raging at you, now for being a shit player in general instead of accusing you of being boosted. Is that better? Not really.
Maybe a ui mod to hide the rating could be a solution. At least for the problem with your own motivation in ladder this would be nice. I don't think we can realistically remove rating from the score board for everyone as SSB is so common and we can only change the default score board.