M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On
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@MadMax said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
having one vault where anything goes is pointless there would still need to be a minimum of rules and then it would need to be policed so how is that any better than what we have now ?
My proposal for 2 lists doesn't have/allow any more or less content on the vault than Morax's proposed whitelist system does. The difference is in the accessibility to the non-whitelisted content. I want new non-whitelisted maps to be in an easily accessible list; Morax doesn't.
Having new non-whitelisted maps available in an easily accessible list is better for the many, many players who like to play on maps that won't be on Morax's whitelist.
@Morax said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
If people don't want to voice their opinions where it has been voiced for years, then it's their fault. Again, you are claiming "most people don't want to use the forums" but I don't see this in discord or other sources.
Ignoring the situation because many people who don't agree with you don't voice their opinions where you see/understand them doesn't make their opinions less important or nonexistent. You want proof that people want to play maps that won't be on your whitelist? Look no further than the bazillion astro crater variants (that I assume will never be on your whitelist) that pop up all the time and get a remarkable amount of games collectively. Thousands of people like those maps and want to find more maps like that. They don't have to say so to you for you to realize that. The data speaks for itself there. And that is just one example..... Honestly, open your eyes and realize that a lot of people like things that you don't like and want to play on maps that you don't like, because it's fun for them to do those things and play on those maps.
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Morax, I'd hate to be a hater but imagine making a "Good Map List" what type of biased shit is this. This entire list will be your opinion. You can't deny that it won't be biased everything you decide will always be biased that's how humans work. This shitters list for maps and this "Good quality maps" is completely opinion-based. People think Astro Crater is a genius map, that's their opinion.
This accessibility thing blows my mind. I thought you were making good decisions; Morax, but it seems that you fail to realize that this is community ran and you ignoring the community will never help you. You realize that I, myself deal with the community on a daily. You seem like you haven't realized what your job is yet. It's not to be the police but its to be a voice for the community and what they want. Its never a solo job. Your acting like your opinion matters over everyone else's and that's a foolish way of thinking. I understood your enforcing of certain rules to enforce some kind of "Standard Quality" in the vote, but I see you couldn't handle that so your last option is to good full Stalin and great purge the map vote and only allow certain people. Who will suck your toes to be on that white list?
Morax you just never listen to anyone I feel but a certain selection of people and shit you don't even listen to them. Everyone can tell its 100% what YOU want.
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@Cascade said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Can we just have a vault for shitters and then a vault tailored for quality maps/approved authors?
Why would we allow people to be a "shitter?"
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Because they have opinions like it or not. Astro is a "shit" map as far as I'm concerned but there are people who play it 20+ times a day, im pretty sure they like the map.
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@Morax Because this is a small community and losing people due to elitist attitude will make it smaller. I know it may not be apparent among the ESL community but Russians LOVE their shitty maps, and I know that a huge source of new faf players come from the community that Yuri built on casting shit maps. I'd argue that the astro/gap community is larger than the rest of the faf community combined. Do we want to lose that player base because we personally don't agree with it?
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Okay then vote me out when the election comes up. Noted.
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Duly noted
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I don't understand why you guys think this = deleted maps. the maps will still be there and can be played. no map is ever going to get removed, it can be found in the vault, and you can host whatever you like.
The Russian community will not lose their gap/astro - make sense?
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@Morax said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
I don't understand why you guys think this = deleted maps. the maps will still be there and can be played. no map is ever going to get removed, it can be found in the vault, and you can host whatever you like.
The Russian community will not lose their gap/astro - make sense?
They will lose accessibility and awareness for many new gap/astro type maps, as well as for many other new maps that won't be on your whitelist, though:
@Emperor_Penguin said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Being able to upload a map to a vault where almost no one will see it because it's not easily enough accessible/discoverable is better than nothing, but it's much, much worse for getting maps out there than being able to upload it to somewhere where everyone can easily enough see it if they're looking for new maps to play.
Doing the 2 vaults or 2 lists idea would resolve this issue. -
Cascade, penguin, I don't believe what I'm doing will affect this.
In fact, 2 Russians actually approached me and requested to disallow gap and astro clones:
https://forums.faforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18785
Feel free to contact Robustness or Suzuji on the matter...
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@Morax said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Popular does not equal good, Moses. Sorry.
Yeah... in retrospect it looks like this was not the smartest thing to post. I didn't know that such a firestrm might be created by my posting here, but the elitism is comical.
And the people leading the charge against the popular maps are the ones that don't know why popular maps are actually popular until its explained to them in detail.
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Let me know when you make a map that fills.
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@Morax said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Cascade, penguin, I don't believe what I'm doing will affect this.
Of course it will affect it; this is very basic cause and effect. If you make new non-whitelist maps harder to find/access, then fewer players will discover/play those maps, even if they want to discover/play maps like that.
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@Emperor_Penguin said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
If you make new non-whitelist maps harder to find/access, then fewer players will discover/play those maps, even if they want to discover/play maps like that
that's a bad thing because? a few players wern't able to find that one special pos map... oh dear that make me sad...
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Look at this dude.
@moses_the_red -
@Khada_Jhin said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Look at this dude.
@moses_the_redI had no idea he made Dual Gap.
Well. I guess he has made a popular team map. Well done.
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We know what we are doing...
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Im not sure what might suck worse.
The fact that:
You know that you only got a meager 1000 play count on one map because you did nothing but host it for years on end.- And the fact that you knew that I knew this, and that I had already called you out on this fact, and that you didn't have a good counterpoint for it. But you attempted to play this card without doing any basic research anyway.
Or the fact that:
The sum total of all your other maps combined is 180.
And the play count of the CHAMP
The play count of the CHAMP is 222?
Subtract the total amount of times you've hosted your own map.
Do you think the amount of your total map plays can compete against the CHAMP? Didn't think so.Stay humble and work on making good content instead of making 3000 word forum posts to justify bad content. You'll have a better time in the community if you do.
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Did you actually make Dual Gap, or did you just do a remaster?
And if you subtracted the total number of 1v1 games for any of your maps - aside from Dual Gap variants - do you have over 1000 games?
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More an expanded edition to an already existing map, but of course this was not exempt from your inquiry.
But besides that, it'd be hard to discount his "1v1" maps when some of them are designed for team games and can be played as such. Glossing over the numbers, it's difficult to tally up those instances, but odds are good he's comfortably over 1k games.