M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On
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@Morax Because this is a small community and losing people due to elitist attitude will make it smaller. I know it may not be apparent among the ESL community but Russians LOVE their shitty maps, and I know that a huge source of new faf players come from the community that Yuri built on casting shit maps. I'd argue that the astro/gap community is larger than the rest of the faf community combined. Do we want to lose that player base because we personally don't agree with it?
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Okay then vote me out when the election comes up. Noted.
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Duly noted
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I don't understand why you guys think this = deleted maps. the maps will still be there and can be played. no map is ever going to get removed, it can be found in the vault, and you can host whatever you like.
The Russian community will not lose their gap/astro - make sense?
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@Morax said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
I don't understand why you guys think this = deleted maps. the maps will still be there and can be played. no map is ever going to get removed, it can be found in the vault, and you can host whatever you like.
The Russian community will not lose their gap/astro - make sense?
They will lose accessibility and awareness for many new gap/astro type maps, as well as for many other new maps that won't be on your whitelist, though:
@Emperor_Penguin said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Being able to upload a map to a vault where almost no one will see it because it's not easily enough accessible/discoverable is better than nothing, but it's much, much worse for getting maps out there than being able to upload it to somewhere where everyone can easily enough see it if they're looking for new maps to play.
Doing the 2 vaults or 2 lists idea would resolve this issue. -
Cascade, penguin, I don't believe what I'm doing will affect this.
In fact, 2 Russians actually approached me and requested to disallow gap and astro clones:
https://forums.faforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=18785
Feel free to contact Robustness or Suzuji on the matter...
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@Morax said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Popular does not equal good, Moses. Sorry.
Yeah... in retrospect it looks like this was not the smartest thing to post. I didn't know that such a firestrm might be created by my posting here, but the elitism is comical.
And the people leading the charge against the popular maps are the ones that don't know why popular maps are actually popular until its explained to them in detail.
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Let me know when you make a map that fills.
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@Morax said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Cascade, penguin, I don't believe what I'm doing will affect this.
Of course it will affect it; this is very basic cause and effect. If you make new non-whitelist maps harder to find/access, then fewer players will discover/play those maps, even if they want to discover/play maps like that.
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@Emperor_Penguin said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
If you make new non-whitelist maps harder to find/access, then fewer players will discover/play those maps, even if they want to discover/play maps like that
that's a bad thing because? a few players wern't able to find that one special pos map... oh dear that make me sad...
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Look at this dude.
@moses_the_red -
@Khada_Jhin said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Look at this dude.
@moses_the_redI had no idea he made Dual Gap.
Well. I guess he has made a popular team map. Well done.
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We know what we are doing...
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Im not sure what might suck worse.
The fact that:
You know that you only got a meager 1000 play count on one map because you did nothing but host it for years on end.- And the fact that you knew that I knew this, and that I had already called you out on this fact, and that you didn't have a good counterpoint for it. But you attempted to play this card without doing any basic research anyway.
Or the fact that:
The sum total of all your other maps combined is 180.
And the play count of the CHAMP
The play count of the CHAMP is 222?
Subtract the total amount of times you've hosted your own map.
Do you think the amount of your total map plays can compete against the CHAMP? Didn't think so.Stay humble and work on making good content instead of making 3000 word forum posts to justify bad content. You'll have a better time in the community if you do.
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Did you actually make Dual Gap, or did you just do a remaster?
And if you subtracted the total number of 1v1 games for any of your maps - aside from Dual Gap variants - do you have over 1000 games?
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More an expanded edition to an already existing map, but of course this was not exempt from your inquiry.
But besides that, it'd be hard to discount his "1v1" maps when some of them are designed for team games and can be played as such. Glossing over the numbers, it's difficult to tally up those instances, but odds are good he's comfortably over 1k games.
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I would have given him a chance. And if it doesn't work out. Then give a chance to the ideas of biass.
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@FtXCommando If the majority of people prefer a map over another, it doesn't make it an objectively bad map, it just makes you a bad judge of what a good map is when it comes to the general playerbase.
At the end of the day a map exists for people to play it and enjoy it. What you may find personally enjoyable, other people may not.
Throwing out words like 'objectively' is not helpful, because the list of criterion that "objective" is measured by is subjective, and then even the scoring on that criterion itself is susceptible to being subjective. So the only measure is popular opinion at this point.
I agree playercount is bad measurement for scoring, however, as it gives advantage to team maps, over lower player maps, meaning it will be exclusively 4v4-6v6 maps showing. So all the survival maps will dissapear as they are traditionally 4 player only.
Maybe it would be better to have a rating system, where if a game is filled, and played for X time then the map gets 1 point or somesuch. This score then decays overtime with decay increasing with age of map.
"You don’t base the quality of cinema"
That is exactly what a blockbuster is. At this point films are fomulaic to appeal to the joe bloggs, not critics. If you want critics you go see movies released at film festivals like Swiss Army man or somesuch.
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@Psions said in M&M Map Vault Plans for Fall 2020 and On:
Maybe it would be better to have a rating system, where if a game is filled, and played for X time then the map gets 1 point or somesuch. This score then decays overtime with decay increasing with age of map.
Your rating solution does not fix the problem you have stated. Larger maps and team maps would most likely last longer than 1v1.
You might be confused with player count vs play count. Play count is a great metric, the more a map is played, the more popular it is. Obviously have a minimum requirement it to be counted - at least player v player, more than 5 minutes etc etc.
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@scytale Playcount was literally what i was suggesting as a metric.
The purpose of the minimum time to avoid abuse, or false positives from games being rehosted within the first 5 minutes because of other problems.
Why say it doesn't solve the problem, if you are in agreement of it solving the problem.
I think there is a miscommunication here.
