Why is Aeon #1 disliked, #2 inaccessible and #3 most unfun units, but #4 most fun units
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Micro is a nonfactor really. I don’t think any of these factors explain it. Aeon and Seraphim have always maintained the exact same ratio of players, even back when aurora was garbage and could barely be micro’d backwards and when Aeon had no early-mid game combat boost upgrade (shield).
People just don’t like alien fundamentalists and were drawn to generic cool cyborgs or generic earth people. I didn’t pick a faction because of their units. I just enjoy playing as a fascist authoritarian (in supcom).
This is broad population though, if you cut it down to 1000+ then things like aurora start impacting your weights, but I feel like it has more to do with every new dude picking Cybran/UEF which are easy to transition between alongside Seraphim while Aeon requires the slightest degree of adjustment to play well and that’s work that turns people off. So instead you get rationalizations about micro or gun acu or blah blah.
The fact the faction is annoying to fight shows the faction is totally fine, the reason it is annoying to play is habit.
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i don't play aeon cos i can't attack move harbs
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Why is Aeon disliked to play and play against.People usually whine about
- aurora range being "unbeatable" on 5x5 (obviously false, but i guess they can't process the thought : "i played bad and could have done better)
- gun range being OP (also false)
- chrono (fair point)
- mercies stealing games (fair)
Idk why people don't play aeon, but i guess that when you lose all your tanks to bombers for the first time, it vaccinate you from playing them ever again
Why is Aeon unfriendly or inaccessible to new players?I guess people saying over and over in all chats that "aeon t1 needs heavy micro" or "start with uef it's easier" tends to draw new players away from it.
Also most of the time in other factions, the "special units" is rare and can be forgotten about. For example the selen is a special scout/lab, so you don't play lab rush the same way for sera as other faction. But if you forget about it and make a tank instead, it's no big deal. Cybran have a unique stealth field, uef a unique engineer, but not a big deal too. But you can't forget about aurora, it's the main tank. You can't forget scouts, you can't forget to put extra ressources on winning air .. etc. When you're used to "normal" tanks, it's harder to think "Oh yea, i'm playing aeon i need to change the way i play the t1 stage".Which Aeon units highlight the "unfun" aspects of Aeon?Aurora. It's truely not a fun unit to use. I'm rarely happy about what that unit does, but very frequently disapointed and frustrated at them.
Note : in my case (1v1 ladder) this also has to do with the 1v1 map pool. I feel there are a lot of maps where aeon are bad (big open land maps like desolation for example, because spamming t1 tanks isn't viable for aeon), but very rarely the map pool contains a map where aeon is good (like gate of anubis, the wilderness, canis river) and when there is one, there's only 1 ... not 2 or 3, while there can be 4-5 maps where aeon sucks. I think aeon suffers from the existance of zthuee basically, because a map good for aeon can be absurdly good for seraphim.Which Aeon units highlight the "fun" aspects of Aeon?- Mercies are very fun to use. Very frustrating when killed by inties or AA, but sniping with them is always quite the dopamine spike.
- Obsidians feel so powerfull and impactfull, love watching them kill everything.
- CZAR obviously best EXP ever. Not the most powerfull, but you just can't escape the joy of ctrl-king it over your ennemy just to send a message.
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@valki said in Why is Aeon #1 disliked, #2 inaccessible and #3 most unfun units, but #4 most fun units:
@kalethequick said in Why is Aeon #1 disliked, #2 inaccessible and #3 most unfun units, but #4 most fun units:
Except I pretty much only play Aeon, so I really have no basis for comparison.
You can at least comment on #4 which units are more fun, and maybe #2 if you remember who you got started with Aeon.
I got started with Aeon because I'm a monarchist and like monarchy esque stuff, and I like religious zealots and fervor, same reason I go Vanu in PlanetSide 2. And I recently learned they are probably the most morally justified belligerents of the war, sitting idly by until the eldar were exterminated. Sorry I mean the 6 winged angels or whatever.
TBH I played for like 10 years just against AI, and IIRC in vanilla the Galactic Colossus had the most HP or otherwise felt like it had so much HP it was a walking game ender, an unstoppable being come to purge the world with holy atomic fire. But I've learned a lot about the game since then so IDK if that was true. Also their T3 fighter had AOE (or said it was flak) and that was baller.
Other than that I'm not quite sure. I play them now and appreciate their focused and specialized units, high alpha damage (though I also enjoy countering that with t1 scouts, milking overkill). The units fill a requisite micro level that I think is ok, though I am the man who thinks hover bombing is the devil and would automate tactical elements given the opportunity. I think some of the downsides are the more specialized units that are SO specialized they hardly see use, mercies, shards, and to a lesser extent Swifties and restorers. I also think some units are very specialized but should maybe specialize harder and require additional units for different niches. But that's changing the game, which isn't the point here.I think Aeon fail to be noobie friendly because humans are weak spirited and not ready for the enlightenment of THE WAY.
Or it's because they require the slightest bit of thought to utilize effectively. I don't mean that degradingly. I mean that if you are new to the game, plop into a skirmish with AI and aren't some RTS savant, you get some resources, and start making stuff, then send it to attack. UEF and Cyb you can get pretty far just making their t1 attack unit and going in. Make Aeon tanks and send them in and they get slaughtered. Yeah you need radar, radar? What the fuck is radar? What are these grey blips? Anyway my tanks were shredded asunder so I'm going to make these cheaper and faster Flares now, clearly that's the intended T1 attacking unit, robots are cool. Maybe that tank is meant for a water thing? I see they can go on water, must be some special shit. Whats this, an OBLIVION cannon? Oblivion was trash so shooting it out of a cannon is alright. ooooOooaHHHH PEEEEWWWMMMMM, god DAMN that was awesome, did you see that it all charged up and shot this massive explodey thing, awesome! Oh it was killed by T1 stuff? What's that? Build T1 PD next to it for support and to mitigate it's shortcomings? Nono, 2 is higher than 1 so the T2 one is better, guess this faction just sucks.
Noobies are noobish when they come in, they are gonna look at everything though such a noobie lens. So yeah that's how I played against AI for 10 years and entered FAF ladder spamming LABS. Gee, wonder why I'm still 800 rank.
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Personally, it's mainly because I don't like the Aeon unit selection sounds.
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@auricocorico said in Why is Aeon #1 disliked, #2 inaccessible and #3 most unfun units, but #4 most fun units:
People usually whine about
- gun range being OP (also false)
Assuming I'm not Aeon myself (where I could get my own double gun ACU), how do I efficiently frustrate an Aeon double gun ACU?
Spamming T2 PD is expensive and they can walk somewhere else.
Using T2 air units requires me to to get air superiority and upgrade to T2 air and make air attack units and if he has flak I have to snipe it. If he sees it coming he can make multiple flak for a lot less price than the cost to set up the air snipe.
T3 land units can be strong against a double gun ACU, but getting T3 land is super expensive at early stages in the game.
Can I beat it with T1 land? Can I beat it with T2 land? How?
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You get an hp upgrade (t2, nano) and walk into it or make a t2 pd and protect it.
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My 2 cents as I main Aeon:
Why is Aeon disliked to play and play against.
Aurora.
More unit babysitting (from both players).
Different gameplay style.
Specific knowledge required.
Unsatisfying air units.
Mercy.
Every Aeon unit feels like it counters 1 thing whilst being countered by 3 things.
Wobbly missiles which can sometimes miss stationary targets.
Chrono.
Obsidians never die.
Volcano is the best and worst TMD.
Paragon. Useless (usually) or OP but never neither.Why is Aeon unfriendly or inaccessible to new players?
The only faction that feels like a different game from the rest.Which Aeon units highlight the "unfun" aspects of Aeon?
Aurora.
Mercy.
CZAR.Which Aeon units highlight the "fun" aspects of Aeon?
Obsidian.
Mercy.
CZAR.Aeon. The only faction where my enjoyment is inversely proportional to my opponents enjoyment.
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Imo Aeon is generally disliked because of aurora, double gun, mercy, very cheap shield(in terms of e drain), chrono, early t3 stage when range gun and omni upgrade with shield or chrono can kill bricks or percies without any casualties, CZAR . Also if you are aeon all these aspects are pretty fun
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Gun range is barely bigger, you almost never feel the difference. If you find yourself in a situation where your ennemy is shooting you and you're not, you literaly just need one step in his direction to get in range. Might feel annoying, but it's really not OP or umbeatable.
Just play exactly as you would against any other gun ACU really.
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@auricocorico
Looks at aeon frigatePar for the course on the meaningless range difference
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@auricocorico said in Why is Aeon #1 disliked, #2 inaccessible and #3 most unfun units, but #4 most fun units:
Gun range is barely bigger, you almost never feel the difference. If you find yourself in a situation where your ennemy is shooting you and you're not, you literaly just need one step in his direction to get in range. Might feel annoying, but it's really not OP or umbeatable.
Just play exactly as you would against any other gun ACU really.
Most players as aeon with double gun know you can just walk acu backwards and you never worry about getting shot… the only way to counter double gun is to t2 pd up.
It is absolutely false that you treat a double gun Aeon acu like any other.
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Idk, i can't find a single replay where i manage to do that. I don't watch many other aeon mains, but this situation seems to never happen, or maybe i'm just too bad at aeon ahah.
Have you seen that happen in a game recently ? Give me a replay ^^ -
I don't get the Aurora hate, aren't gatling/rocket bots the same kiting playstyle but on T2?
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@auricocorico few people let themselves be kited to death, everyone even at my level seems aware of Aeon gun range
Now, the fact it has a significant impact does not mean Aeon is imba, but it seems like it could be a genuine unfun part of Aeon
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There's nothing wrong with Aurora: they're (almost) a T1 sniper.
But Aeon needs a T1 tank: something with enough HP that it can survive 1-on-1 vs any other T1 tank much of the time in close quarters. Perhaps a new unit with the speed of the Aurora but the range of other tanks, with similar DPS but 20% more cost and 30% more HP.
Given a new tank, one could even try balancing the Aurora more like other snipers: lower DPS but a little more speed. (Currently DPS must approx. match other tanks for balance to work with smaller numbers, but then Aurora get too powerful in large groups due to range, except vs bombers...)
If the unit count really can't be increased, there is another option, though many would consider it heresy: turn the Flare into a T1 sniper/LAB hybrid and the Aurora into standard medium (or less-standard heavy) tank.
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@cyborg16 said in Why is Aeon #1 disliked, #2 inaccessible and #3 most unfun units, but #4 most fun units:
turn the Flare into a T1 sniper/LAB hybrid and the Aurora into standard medium (or less-standard heavy) tank.
Awesome, just call it a "Light Sniper Bot"
@auricocorico said in Why is Aeon #1 disliked, #2 inaccessible and #3 most unfun units, but #4 most fun units:
Also most of the time in other factions, the "special units" is rare and can be forgotten about. For example the selen is a special scout/lab, so you don't play lab rush the same way for sera as other faction. But if you forget about it and make a tank instead, it's no big deal.
This solution does a lot to address this "odd duck" situation identified by @auricocorico
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@cptant said in Why is Aeon #1 disliked, #2 inaccessible and #3 most unfun units, but #4 most fun units:
I don't get the Aurora hate, aren't gatling/rocket bots the same kiting playstyle but on T2?
Hoplite and Mongoose are faster and also come with stealth/shield intended support. I'd say they are definitely more forgiving than aurora, especially since you can swap into a heavy tank if you find it takes too much babysitting to keep your ranged bots efficient.
Also, lab is already a proto-tank early on for Aeon. You can reliably kill any tank with 2 of them and with enough babysitting can even trade even. Obviously as armies scale it gets significantly worse.
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@ftxcommando is right. I didn't realize until recently how far ahead of the other factions the flare was. It's higher HP and DPS aren't enough to make it a great part of Frontline platoon composition, but it has like what, 20 hp less than an Aurora? With more DPS. It might actually be better at rushing an ACU if it's just flares. Both take two shots anyway.
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I am going to create a survey to get some good data on this kind of thing. Why people prefer this or that faction, etc (leave suggestions in inbox)
But what sort of changes are viable? I doubt it would get to the point of adding whole new units, and there is a limit to what can be done that preserves the spirit of the Aeon. So I assume smaller stat tweaks to existing units is the name of the game. So, what are our sliders to adjust?
