New Player Councilor Discussion + Removal Announcements

@ftxcommando said in New Player Councilor Discussion + Removal Announcements:

This really turned into a “how to respond to forum threads” discussion huh

It did... no one is asking any good questions since the reset. I’m going to just reply to your response sooner to make it more interesting I guess...

To answer @Valki’s post, here are some examples of how I might respond to the issues he presented:

1. Aeon T1 PD under construction cannot be hit sometimes:
   I believe this phenomenon with targeting partially constructed aeon structures might have something to do with the hitbox or the aimbone needing some adjustments (but I’m not sure if it is realistic to resolve this particular phenomenon, as I think it’s been known for a while without success at resolving it). However, game bugs can be reported here: https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues by submitting a new issue (with an explanation, a replay with a specified time/location that the bug occurs, and a screenshot of the bug occurring), but please make sure it’s not already reported as an issue first (our unpaid volunteer programmers are swamped, and creating duplicate issues slows them down even further (you can search the other issues on the linked page to check if there is already an issue created for this problem) – there is already a backlog of 348 open issues, and it can take a very long time to resolve them).
2. missiles subject to TMD should ignore shields:
   Having missiles ignore shields is an interesting idea, but making that change would theoretically require a lot of other things to be rebalanced (such as missile cruisers, tml structures, tmd, shields, arty, etc). While this is technically possible, I believe that it is unlikely to happen, in-part due to the sheer extensiveness of the quantity of changes that would need to be made to do this in a way that is desirable for the overall community. So, if you want to make mml’s have more interesting dynamics where they can break TMD-less firebases faster, perhaps giving them more alpha damage (more damage per missile, but with a longer reload time, for balance) might be a more mml-specific way to accomplish that. Honestly though, a lot of people are already happy with the way mml’s function atm, and they are already used a lot, so I don’t know if many people would want to change them in either way... Any thoughts?
3. (A)RAS: reduce nearby building consumption to zero:
   Your ideas for RAS/ARAS are interesting. Reducing the mass/energy costs of nearby structures to zero could provide some really strong benefits though (such as with hives), and for that to be balanced, it would probably require an extremely high cost. Changing RAS/ARAS to reduce nearby costs by some percent (like adjacency bonuses give) might be a balanced approach. However, to make changes like these, someone would actually have to code them, and the balance team would have to approve them. My advice would be that if you feel very strongly about this idea, you might want to look into making a mod with a balanced version of these changes and then you could play it with your friends and go from there. However, even if you did that, most new ideas that change the game by this much never get incorporated into the main official version of FAF, but could make for some fun modded games (that can be played on FAF) : )
   If you want to look into modding, you could learn some basic information at these links and in the FAF Discord (you may need to get the modder role from the roles-selection channel to see some relevant channels):
   https://wiki.faforever.com/index.php?title=Modding https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SlI4FkKVCP_E8dE1GfxhM5QDkwuAKGAUnkC2iDUaZAA/edit

Am I the only now who thinks that this responses are actually kinda pathetic? And are only made here and now considering they can directly profit from them as they make for nice PR stunts during the elections?

How is it that before the whole election you wouldn't even think about answering those questions. Hell you could have answered those so long ago but do it only now when it's clear that you will profit from it.

So, why only now, why didn't you actually try to make this a better place before you set your sights at becoming the PC?

@randomwheelchair said in New Player Councilor Discussion + Removal Announcements:

Am I the only now who thinks that this responses are actually kinda pathetic? And are only made here and now considering they can directly profit from them as they make for nice PR stunts during the elections?

How is it that before the whole election you wouldn't even think about answering those questions. Hell you could have answered those so long ago but do it only now when it's clear that you will profit from it.

So, why only now, why didn't you actually try to make this a better place before you set your sights at becoming the PC?

I was about to say, now that these responses have been baited out in the open, can the candidates explain why they never bothered to post them in the first place.

I’d also say for a group of dudes talking about their ability to have better communication and transparency with the balance team (still trying to understand the logic of removing me for someone else for better communication with petric) you guys got a strange idea of what ideas petric would even entertain reading. Reality is neither of the last two ideas would get considered and the first is an issue that is about as old as FAF.

@randomwheelchair @FtXCommando
To answer your statements/questions:
I have done a lot of things to make FAF a better place (ie: improving the map generator, making maps, making mapping utilities, making new props, answering other questions, training noobs, working on code, etc), and it is obviously not realistic nor my job to respond to every random question asked on FAF.

I responded to Valki now (rather than earlier) because he directly invited me by name to respond to those posts yesterday (and not earlier)... I generally try to respond when someone basically asks me a question and @'s me, as I think that's the decent thing to do...

I imagine Morax feels similarly on the above, but I don't want to speak for him here.

Personally, I question the value of FTX's choice to shoot down most new ideas very readily. I think that policy makes negative associations with the FAF experience, contributes to a negative atmosphere, and discourages participation. I don't believe that attitude is good for fostering a collaborative and friendly atmosphere. There are many occasions in which I think the way FTX responds to people is worse than if he didn't respond at all.

Sadly none of that experience matters for answering these questions (and half of it doesn’t even matter for the position, like who cares that you make map props?)

“question FtX choice of shooting down most ideas” as though I’m the one deciding what ideas get into the game.

I go and do what you’re calling shooting down ideas because I know they won’t get considered (through exposure with the people on the balance team) and decide I might as well as give people a rationale for why that won’t happen. You can try to hide it with “oh this would need x and y and maybe then it might get considered” but it doesn’t change any of the realities here. You are definitely on the right track though, there’s no point at all in you responding to these posts when you have no experience or frame of reference with the balance team.

@ftxcommando said in New Player Councilor Discussion + Removal Announcements:

Sadly none of that experience matters for answering these questions (and half of it doesn’t even matter for the position, like who cares that you make map props?)

I was saying that to answer RandomWheelchair's question:
@randomwheelchair said in New Player Councilor Discussion + Removal Announcements:

why didn't you actually try to make this a better place before you set your sights at becoming the PC?

My answer basically equated to; I did actually do things to make FAF a better place before I set my sights on PC... Heck, trying to make FAF better is the reason I'm running for PC...

@ftxcommando said in New Player Councilor Discussion + Removal Announcements:

I shoot down ideas because I know they won’t get considered (through exposure with the people on the balance team) and decide I might as well as give people a rationale for why that won’t happen. You can try to hide it with “oh this would need x and y and maybe it might get considered” but it doesn’t change any of the realities here. You are definitely on the right track though, there’s no point at all in you responding to these posts when you have no experience or frame of reference with the balance team.

This condescending and dismissive attitude is part of the problem... You make many people not even try anymore to suggest or improve things out of negative thoughts/feelings resulting from the way you so often respond.
Perhaps an idea is extremely unlikely to ever be implemented into base FAF; that doesn't mean you need to rudely shoot the person down and discourage them from participating.

By comparison, doing something like mentioning that the person could make their ideas into a mod (and then linking some modding resources) is not condescending and is potentially constructive (and probably doesn't leave the person feeling so badly). Further, I have found many successes in life in trying where others say I can't do X. Your word is not law. Just because you think something will never ever be implemented, does not automatically guarantee that it is so. I think you shouldn't strive to stifle potential innovation.

Nothing in any of my three responses to Valki involved rudely shooting anybody down nor discouraging anybody from participating.

I discouraged you specifically from hypothetically participating because you do not have any real additional credibility as a perspective PC. Nobody on the balance team is close to you and you are not close to any of them. You have no idea how they make decisions nor anything else related to them really. I do. I have a working relationship with every person on the balance team and several go well beyond a working relationship. These ties are what I use to justify my knowledge of what ideas are likely to see the light of day.

You would just be another 1700 rated dude saying his input, but you would have a cool badge attached to it.

To reply to Endranii and FTX, I have made these issues known before, and like many, we gave up because he just writes a book length response telling one you are essentially "dead wrong" or "I do not agree with you."

It would be nice if FTX would poll the community, for instance, to see if they are actually happy with how balance updates work, which you can see per this thread are not really going that well: https://forum.faforever.com/topic/1634/opening-the-balancing-blackbox-to-the-public/31

@RandomWheelchair it is only pathetic now because I do not think you really play the game much (as you told me) and do not engage with it as much as daily players. These issues may not bother you as much as other people, so no, it is not pathetic to some.

I really dislike that you make false statements like that, FTX. Aside from my experience creating/balancing several other games, I've participated in numerous FAF balance discussions, including many involving member(s) of the balance team. I've also read a lot of forum posts and discussion messages from members of the balance team specifically explaining their reasoning for making/not making various changes. I consider reading and participating in numerous discussions and posts on FAF balance containing many thousands of messages, including numerous ones from members of the balance team, to be substantial information. To say I have "no idea how they make decisions nor anything else related to them" is just rude, wrong, and insulting...

You say you didn't shoot anybody down or discourage anybody from participating, yet you were rude/condescending/dismissive to me and you responded to Valki in a way that provoked this response from another person (prior to this election)...

@shape-of-bennis said in (A)RAS: reduce nearby building consumption to zero:

Wow ftx you totally smashed the idea.

...

We should have an environment here that rewards people for having ideas and sharing them with us, if they are new and somewhat thought out. Not talk it into the ground with a somewhat condescending tone! Not what a councillor should behave like!
Jk I still love you but its still meh behaviour.

You can say what you want, but you clearly make people feel badly and are discouraging/condescending/dismissive. That is not the type of treatment that I (and many others) would hope for from the PLAYERS' Councilor.

You reading balance team forum posts just means you read about 25% Tagada explaining why ideas are bad, 50% farm shitposting bad ideas, and 25% of turin asking people questions.

I look forward to the insights of your breadth of knowledge.

How about this question to test your knowledge: What is required for a balance change to get pushed into the next patch.

If bennis is the best you can cite for my toxic attitude, you better reconsider your position lol

@FtXCommando

I will keep them coming and you can tell me when to stop. Fair?

From one of your trainers:

From a guy who just hosted a lower skill rating tourney because you are "too busy and overloaded":

From a guy who just hosted a lower skill rating tourney because you are "too busy and overloaded":

From a guy who just hosted a lower skill rating tourney because you are "too busy and overloaded":

One more for now because why not? I would like to hear you guys claim that "no one but Morax says this and that" a little more and we can continue to debate this. Win the election or not, people are going to start seeing in totality what they think of how you handle their game.

So for all 3 (more so Thacon and Morax): We all love polling and all love opanions. But like (whatever part of anatomy you prefer) everyone has one.

As PC:
If you found playerbase irrovacably came out against a change (like this mex change. Now we can debate pedantics of this but tje balance can point to how Underpowered folks feel T3 is. And argueably easier BP accessibity gets T3 deployed faster. You no longer need T3 Engineers etc (which ironically requires T3. Its a vicuous cycle)).

You go to the balance team, or its councilior Petric. Or whatever how will you convince them?

Screaming and Shouting go as about as well as recieving coal for christmas (which piece of trivia was originally good thing. But that random historical factoid). How would you approach Petric?

I will convince the association they have reason other than themselves to remove them as they are not doing what is in the best interest of the community.

It has been long enough they get away with doing whatever they please and shooting almost everyone down.

And if that means dismantling the council and restructuring it into a group of individuals that have actual liability, then so be it.

The whole concept of the "council of sentons" was some poor attempt by visionik to give the FAF community some kind of "company structure"

Lots of those quotes have entirely wrong information.

• Petric was unanimously elected by the current balance team, he wasn’t just put in his seat.

• Ladder pools are delegated to a team to create, review, and critique.

• Likewise, Petric literally requires a democratic consent from balance team to implement something INTO a balance patch.

So yeah, keep going.