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    The current pre-release of the client ("pioneer" in the version) is only compatible to itself. So you can only play with other testers. Please be aware!

    M28AI Devlog (v302)

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved AI development
    695 Posts 68 Posters 2.3m Views 5 Watching
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    • maudlin27M Offline
      maudlin27 @waffelzNoob
      last edited by

      @waffelzNoob Yes, if you've got the replay ID (assuming it was against a later version than the one Radde beat)

      M27AI and M28AI developer:
      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
      M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

      waffelzNoobW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • waffelzNoobW Offline
        waffelzNoob @maudlin27
        last edited by waffelzNoob

        I decided to kick it up a notch from 1.4x, and tried 2.0x (gotta test the waters you know), but lost.
        25235283-waffelzNoob.7z (replay was broken)
        Tried 1.8x twice, to no avail.
        game 1. 25235404-waffelzNoob.7z Pausing the game for a few minutes broke the replay here
        game 2. https://replay.faforever.com/25235533

        Using 6 spawns probably wasn't wise because it meant the AI would have a ton of income even if I reduced it to its 3 core bases, but oh well. Would've tried 1.7x or 1.6x but only had motivation for one more game so I did it on 1.4x.
        https://replay.faforever.com/25235664

        frick snoops!

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
        • maudlin27M Offline
          maudlin27
          last edited by maudlin27

          v247 Update
          18 changes, including:

          • strategic bombers running from nearby asfs when lacking air control
          • 2 ACU related changes to make them more aggressive in 1v1s, and to delay getting T2/nano if the enemy's ACU lacks an upgrade
          • 3 land combat adjustments to make selens a bit more aggressive and tweaking 'all-in' land pushes on enemy ACUs
          • 10 engineer/building changes, including making M28 more likely to get 3-4 air factories before it has t3 air, reducing its tendency to get mex upgrades when it cant find a factory to upgrade, and not building pre-emptive TMD if the enemy lacks MMLs
          • 2 factory changes - A small number of tanks should be built to support sniperbots if the enemy has t1 spam nearby, and fewer T3 mobile arti should be built in proportion to tanks once a certain number have been built.

          Acknowledgements

          • Radde - 9 replays on Xander and mapgen
          • WaffelzNoob - Replay beaing M28 on mapgen

          Trophy award

          • WaffelzNoob claims the Radde trophy by beating 1.4/1.0 M28 (v246) on a 15km mapgen

          M27AI and M28AI developer:
          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
          M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
          • maudlin27M Offline
            maudlin27
            last edited by

            v248 Update
            10 changes based on a 1v1 replay I did against M28 on a 5km, including:

            • 3 land combat changes, so shorter ranged units should support ACUs and adjacent zone skirmishers
            • 2 factory changes to factor in underconstruction indirectfire units for the IF:DF ratio, and build more inties in proportion to gunships to deal with nearby threats
            • 4 engineer/factory changes, including improving logic for where to place a T2 PD, and fixing a bug where multiple T1 factories would upgrade to T2 HQs at once.

            M27AI and M28AI developer:
            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
            M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
            • maudlin27M Offline
              maudlin27
              last edited by

              v249 Update
              25 changes, including:

              • Increased MAA production at the T1 stage compared to before
              • 7 air changes, including fixing some bugs with M28's first bomber attack orders and making M28 less likely to take air fights if it has poor intel
              • Fixed some bugs with engineer/production, including two that could cause M28 to not build experimental units
              • Naval units should be more likely to run from enemy gunships/bombers

              Acknowledgements

              • Azraeel - QUIET replay
              • Bean.Steve - logs with some error messages relating to M28

              M27AI and M28AI developer:
              https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
              https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
              M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
              • maudlin27M Offline
                maudlin27
                last edited by maudlin27

                v250 Update
                11 changes:

                • 5 naval changes - torpedo launchers should be built closer to naval factories, naval factories should be less likely to be built on unimportant ponds, and some bugfixes relating to engineers and naval factories deciding what units to build
                • 2 LOUD changes including a workaround for an issue where players would be limited to 1 text marker
                • 2 land combat changes, including fixing an issue where if M28 had T1 arti that outranged the enemy tanks it could lead to M28's tanks not receiving new orders.
                • 2 other bugfixes

                Acknowledgements

                • Radde - Mapgen replay
                • AgPhoenix - Replay with nomads where M28 crashed

                Trophy award

                • Radde and Microplastic claim the Radde trophy, beating a 1.5 resource M28 on mapgen

                M27AI and M28AI developer:
                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                • maudlin27M Offline
                  maudlin27
                  last edited by maudlin27

                  v251 Update
                  11 changes:

                  • 6 ACU changes, including Cybran ACUs getting torpedo upgrade on naval maps, and ACUs helping build an early naval factory and torp launcher
                  • air factories should be more likely to consider upgrading from t1 to a t2 support factory when needing torp bombers
                  • 3 air changes (torpedo bombers should be more aggressive if the enemy lacks cruisers; inties and asfs should be less likely to engage air units inbetween them and a target if those units are covered by AA)
                  • Mexes should delay t3 upgrades on naval maps if there's a nearby enemy naval threat

                  Acknowledgements

                  • Radde - Naval mapgen replay against 1.4 resource M28

                  Also to note that I'm likely to have significantly less time available for AI development going forwards, so the frequency and extent of updates will be reduced from before.

                  M27AI and M28AI developer:
                  https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                  https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                  M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                  • D Offline
                    DillyDally
                    last edited by

                    https://replay.faforever.com/25425604 - won on 5km vs *1.5 ai

                    maudlin27M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • maudlin27M Offline
                      maudlin27 @DillyDally
                      last edited by

                      @DillyDally Hi, unfortunately the replay isn't found/stored on FAF, could you PM me on discord with the local file (presumably it was using v251?)

                      M27AI and M28AI developer:
                      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                      M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • maudlin27M Offline
                        maudlin27
                        last edited by maudlin27

                        v252 Update
                        24 changes from a replay I came across on FAF where M28 built a paragon, had it up for a few minutes, but still lost.

                        The changes can basically be summarised as:

                        • Fixed an issue with game-ender shielding/templates having engineers stuck doing nothing when trying to build defences
                        • Once a paragon is built more 'resource consuming' units should be transferred to the paragon owner and experimentals should be more likely to be built
                        • Fixed a repeat error message that could occur if an engineer was told to reclaim a unit that subsequently was destroyed.

                        M27AI and M28AI developer:
                        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                        M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                        • maudlin27M Offline
                          maudlin27
                          last edited by

                          v253 Update
                          5 changes, including:

                          • TMD should be built ahead of almost anything else if the enemy is successfully TMLing M28's stuff
                          • Asfs should be less likely to attack units in adjacent zones to a target if those zones have significant ground based AA
                          • Units should be less likely to suicide into a fatboy if it's not in range of friendly T2 arti

                          M27AI and M28AI developer:
                          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                          M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                          • JipJ Jip referenced this topic on
                          • maudlin27M Offline
                            maudlin27
                            last edited by

                            v254 Update
                            38 changes, mostly from a couple of replays on Arcane

                            • 2 ACU changes (slight improvement to early BO with AIx mods)
                            • 7 Air changes (incl Torpedo bombers more cautious, transports a bit sooner in some low power scenarios)
                            • 6 Navy changes (incl improved missile ship bombardment, delayed navy on maps like arcane)
                            • 8 land combat changes (incl more aggression against low health ACUs, and more aggression if enemy armies are split up and one is vulnerable)
                            • land factory changes (incl fewer MAA vs early enemy bomber)
                            • 7 engineer changes (incl TMD bugfix, more reclaiming of blocking walls)
                            • 3 mod related changes (QUIET experimental kiting and HQ support, steam compatibiltiy fix)

                            Acknowledgements

                            • Sladow - Various suggestions on improvements based on a review of an M28 replay, and replay vs M28 on Arcane
                            • Emerald - Replays on Arcane and Theta Passage beating M28

                            Trophy Award

                            • Emerald - Beating M28 AIx 1.5 on Theta Passage

                            M27AI and M28AI developer:
                            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                            M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                            • maudlin27M Offline
                              maudlin27
                              last edited by

                              v255 Update
                              7 changes, including making gunships less likely to ignore a nearby target in favour of a far away one; more inties being built relative to jesters; and improving the speed with which transports load engineers.

                              Acknowledgements

                              • Zwaffel - Replay beating 1.5 M28 (v253) on open palms, and highlighting some issues with M28 in that game

                              M27AI and M28AI developer:
                              https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                              https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                              M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                              • maudlin27M Offline
                                maudlin27
                                last edited by

                                v256 Update
                                15 changes, mostly relating to when a paragon is built (based on a replay I came across where M28 built a paragon but still lost), including fixing some bugs that broke most of the previous paragon logic, removing a few niche cases where units could be paused despite owning a paragon, and having T3 mexes gifted to non-paragon owning teammates when the paragon owner finishes upgrading them. Also made sniperbots less likely to suicide into range of an enemy monkeylord.

                                M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                • maudlin27M Offline
                                  maudlin27
                                  last edited by

                                  v257 Update
                                  17 changes from a couple of random live replays I watched:

                                  • 5 navy changes (including reducing the AA threat of units like the atlantis when submerged)
                                  • 4 air changes (including making torpedo bombers more aggressive when in very large numbers)
                                  • 1 land combat change (units being more hesitant to attack when supporting longer ranged units)
                                  • 6 RAS and Engineer changes (SACUs more likely to assist a game-ender, fixed a bug with scathis not being considered a game-ender)
                                  • 1 Micro change (Seraphim and Cruiser missiles should be dodged)

                                  M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                  https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                  https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                  M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                  • maudlin27M Offline
                                    maudlin27
                                    last edited by

                                    I've updated the original post in this thread to record past trophy holders for posterity

                                    M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                    https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                    https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                    M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                    • maudlin27M Offline
                                      maudlin27
                                      last edited by maudlin27

                                      v258 Update
                                      6 changes, including Fatboy's MAA guards trying to move between the fatboy and an approaching bomber snipe, and some adjustments to M28Easy to make it less likely to build ahwassas (along with having the bomber given a basic 'move to base' order after firing in place of the normal 'hover micro turn' of M28 - i.e. better than just doing a suicide-run over the entire enemy base, but not the micro-optimised approach of M28)

                                      M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                      M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                      C H 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • C Offline
                                        chucups @maudlin27
                                        last edited by

                                        @maudlin27 there it seems m28 got bugged with newest update. Just starting any new game it crashes game no matter map or mods/no mods. I made exhaustive tests to be sure before reporting. Since its a very recent update, im not sure but all players should experience the same...

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • H Offline
                                          hooknose_who13 @maudlin27
                                          last edited by

                                          @maudlin27 Can confirm. I've been having similar problems with plenty of testing. For myself I have had games start with the AI bugging out and not moving or the crashes like you have stated. Just yesterday it was working fine so this makes me believe the newest update might have sent a screw loose.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • maudlin27M Offline
                                            maudlin27
                                            last edited by maudlin27

                                            Thanks should be fixed now (v259) - I was doing a final pre-upload check for if I'd left any logs on and parts of my search term ended up in the code.

                                            Thanks for everyone who reported (chucups, AdditionUsed7392, Radde, Fearghal, SeraphimNoob, Chickenzilla, wimmy123, IndexLibrorum and anyone else I've overlooked)

                                            M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                            M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2

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