Developers Iteration III of 2023

veteranashe · 20 Aug 2023, 21:48

@jip said in Developers Iteration III of 2023:

Added a section about Mobile factories

I just tested the Fatboy, can't wait to see it in action it's going to have a huge buff.

I think your favorite thing it fixing units so the behave correctly and then they are broken in balence. (Gc fatboys and now t1 bombers too)

Jip · 21 Aug 2023, 06:12

I don't recall touching tech 1 bombers , unless you're referring to the aim bug

@veteranashe said in Developers Iteration III of 2023:

I think your favorite thing it fixing units so the behave correctly and then they are broken in balence. (Gc fatboys and now t1 bombers too)

To be fair, I did reduce the build rate of the mobile factories to make them less broken

Blade_Walker · 21 Aug 2023, 08:09

the mobile factories all build units internally or with the fatty or tempest at least appearing 'attached' to the unit, but the crab builds a separate 'egg' unit that is on the base map layer and which is going to look very weird if it gets dragged around - maybe it could just keep its original behaviour ?

Jip · 21 Aug 2023, 16:08

The goal is to make it work similar to what @Evildrew did in the Superior FAF Experience mod. In the mod they essentially have a 'poop' or 'birth' animation where the back opens up and the egg drops out of it

veteranashe · 21 Aug 2023, 17:30

Yeah I was guessing the aim bug on t1 bombers being fixed will make them op

Lol

The build rate on the fatty seems close to what it should be balence wise

ComradeStryker · 21 Aug 2023, 18:05

@Jip
I'm really excited about this upcoming change to mobile factories!
But, may I ask why this next action was done? >

@jip said in Developers Iteration III of 2023:

To be fair, I did reduce the build rate of the mobile factories to make them less broken

I thought the consensus was that all Experimentals had poor BP to begin with...?

Maybe that changes with the new dynamic in mobile factories, so this reasoning may now be outdated.
But a Fatty building a Percy or a Cougar in 35 seconds as opposed to 26 before, plus the rolloff time, it still takes a while.

Same with the Atlantis. The high BP is one of its perks when building ASF or other air units.

The Mega should have a much larger BP, so, I'm looking forward to that.
And the Czar being able to build on the move... Can't wait!

The Tempest lacks a rolloff time, so it makes spamming units like engies very, very easy.
It seems like it was adjusted, but not by much.

I'll have to test out some games when I get a chance.
Maybe my standing would change.

Regardless, awesome work, @Jip
Looks great!

~ Stryker

Jip · 21 Aug 2023, 18:40

@comradestryker said in Developers Iteration III of 2023:

The Mega should have a much larger BP, so, I'm looking forward to that.
And the Czar being able to build on the move... Can't wait!

These aren't implemented yet.

@comradestryker said in Developers Iteration III of 2023:

I thought the consensus was that all Experimentals had poor BP to begin with...?
Maybe that changes with the new dynamic in mobile factories, so this reasoning may now be outdated.
But a Fatty building a Percy or a Cougar in 35 seconds as opposed to 26 before, plus the rolloff time, it still takes a while.
Same with the Atlantis. The high BP is one of its perks when building ASF or other air units.

They still have a significant build rate. And unlike other factories, these units roll off at the frontlines instead of somewhere way back.

HarambeOccultist · 23 Aug 2023, 10:22

Thanks for the overview Jip, some very cool changes coming up, maps looking better than ever and very excited to see the mobile factories in action-- one very small gripe though, although this is less "development" related and more "balance" related-- won't reducing the BP of aircraft carriers make them not worth building? According to the current unit DB, carriers are roughly 3x the price of a T3 air fac... I think it will de-incentivize building carriers as mobile factories if it gives the same BP for 3x the price, mobile or not, having 1.5x BP seems like a fairer middle ground since that means you're still paying more for the BP but it's not quite so steep.

veteranashe · 23 Aug 2023, 12:39

Build on the move helps a lot with unit usefulness, that's probably why it's reduced

Jip · 23 Aug 2023, 16:27

@piguy said in Developers Iteration III of 2023:

Thanks for the overview Jip, some very cool changes coming up, maps looking better than ever and very excited to see the mobile factories in action-- one very small gripe though, although this is less "development" related and more "balance" related-- won't reducing the BP of aircraft carriers make them not worth building? According to the current unit DB, carriers are roughly 3x the price of a T3 air fac... I think it will de-incentivize building carriers as mobile factories if it gives the same BP for 3x the price, mobile or not, having 1.5x BP seems like a fairer middle ground since that means you're still paying more for the BP but it's not quite so steep.

The previous build rate was quite high because the unit would either move or build. Now you can build all the time. Overall, you'll be able to build more units than before

You can find the build rate changes here:

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/5339/files

It is a 33% reduction: from 180 to 120 On the other end, the time that you get to build units stretches the life span of the carrier. That is a significant increase, way more than the 33% build rate reduction

And last time I checked, aircraft carriers can build tech 3 aircraft without a tech 3 Air HQ. That is of course a one-time investment, but it matters

Jip · 26 Aug 2023, 04:08

The release is delayed by one week and is now set for the 2nd of September. I'm mentally too tired and in need of a short break from responsibilities

Jip · 26 Aug 2023, 13:36

Key actions can now reference an article on the FAForever Wiki. The distribute orders hotkeys are the first to have such a wiki article.

We'll be adding more articles of sophisticated hotkeys as time passes. You can find a link to articles in the Key Bindings menu, see also the little 'world-wide-web' icons. By clicking on them the game opens your default browser at the correct page

Ctrl-K · 26 Aug 2023, 18:53

I'd consider removing of mobile factories of Czar and Mega as balance change and revert. These abilities are crutial for those 2.

Jip · 26 Aug 2023, 18:59

@Azath0th show me the three replays of the last few months where you used either of them as a mobile factory

Ctrl-K · 26 Aug 2023, 19:39

@jip just by following your ideas we can remove half of units’ abilities because no one uses them every game…

Jip · 26 Aug 2023, 19:41

That sentence is a logical fallacy, come on. On top of that, we both know what you're saying is wrong too

veteranashe · 26 Aug 2023, 21:41

Crucial would mean you build the czar or mega for the mobile factory and anything else is a perk on the unit.

I think you would be hard pressed to find a replay in the last two years of someone using the factory.

Ctrl-K · 26 Aug 2023, 21:53

@veteranashe I can easily find ones that uses that ability

veteranashe · 27 Aug 2023, 03:03

Waiting

Ninrai · 27 Aug 2023, 06:48

@jip said in Developers Iteration III of 2023:

That sentence is a logical fallacy, come on. On top of that, we both know what you're saying is wrong too

How is that a logical fallacy?

You wrote:
"*The following units lose their mobile factory capabilities:

Megalith (Cybran Megabot)
CZAR (Aeon Experimental Carrier)"*

What was the reason for this change? Frequency of usage? If so, what is the threshold value? Will Mantis lose the ability to assist? t2 Gunships ability to transport for rarely used? Would like to understand.
I am primarily puzzled that a change was mentioned without any reason given whatsoever iirc.