My thoughts about balance
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@ftxcommando said in My thoughts about balance:
This is why this thread is pointless.
You:
- Say subs are op
- Directly mention how subs promote passive turtle gameplay
- Specifically talk about situations of having a few more subs vs a few more frigs
I:
- Explain the general utility of frigates
- Showcase how this leads to aggression paying off significantly, especially early on
- Explain why subs don’t do it, including counters.
“Uhhh irrelevant”
My whole thread is pointless cause one point out of many more is irrelevant for you? Nice logic
Unit isn’t OP or meta defining when the unit it is constantly going to be compared to has more utility. Navy games revolve around frigates with the exception of maps that have one billion underwater mexes.
So you admit that you do not consider maps with underwater mexes, right?
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The like 3 matchmaker maps with heavy underwater mexes do not outweigh the 30 where frigates matter more because they aren’t central to the map’s gameplay. I do not care if a unit is particularly strong in a specific niche, so long as it isn’t always the correct option. And yes, I prioritize balance concerns around matchmaker maps and that’s the general foundation balance in general works from.
The thread is pointless cuz you are allowed to point to relations between frigs and subs but when I do it that’s illegal. Carry it over to other situations after some 6 post debate and you get why it becomes pointless.
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@ftxcommando said in My thoughts about balance:
The like 3 matchmaker maps with heavy underwater mexes do not outweigh the 30 where frigates matter more because they aren’t central to the map’s gameplay. I do not care if a unit is particularly strong in a specific niche, so long as it isn’t always the correct option. And yes, I prioritize balance concerns around matchmaker maps and that’s the general foundation balance in general works from.
The thread is pointless cuz you are allowed to point to relations between frigs and subs but when I do it that’s illegal. Carry it over to other situations after some 6 post debate and you get why it becomes pointless.
Your post is pointless also then, out of every point I told you personally and in post in general you make a conclustion from only one. Single one. With that logic I can ignore you and you can ignore my threads as well, would be nice for both of us I guess.
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Way to miss forest for trees.
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And this guy trash talks in game chat after lose. Ew! Disgusting.
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@ftxcommando said in My thoughts about balance:
Yes, corsairs on mexes. 1250 damage a corsair on 2k hp max for a mex. If you get real bad RNG you might need 3. Reminds me that another thing corsair and notha are great for are sniping tmds, janus sucks at that.
I have tested now in sandbox and I completely forgot about the UEF t2 mex nerf. So now you take every mex with 2 corsairs. I was wrong there, sorry for irrelevant answer.
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@gabitii Dont forget about the fact that corsairs fucking disintegrate flak in low numbers!!! Whats even the point of this discussion? It started with FtX telling you that junus is not the most op t2 air option, then he gave you examples of how other t2 air units work and why it makes them better than janus, you proceed with "dude corsairing mexes??? Its so inefficient dude!". Do i need to point out that this is just pointless derailing? And then you fucking cry about FtX responding only to one of your points, i wonder why!
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@gabitii said in My thoughts about balance:
It is very hard to agress against the guy who has 2-3 t1 subs more, whereas u have 3 frigs more.
what are the subs gonna do? stop your frigs? It takes like a minute for a sub to kill a frigate and by that time your frigate will have killed something of value and if the map is too large for that to happen, you probably shouldn't have made the frigs in the first place and rather rushed t2 navy, which makes all the t1 subs your opponent has meaningless.
@gabitii said in My thoughts about balance:
The other issue in t1 subs is that you never see them with scout before an attack, t3 scout is required
No, a T1 sonar is required.
@gabitii said in My thoughts about balance:
Sera subs
It is an other topic of how powerful they became because of the anti torpedo buff. If they are stacked with shift g, you will be needing 3 shots of torpedo bomber to kill one subs.or you just make 3 t1 bomber and kill all the subs at once.
@gabitii said in My thoughts about balance:
But this is a pure mathematics, I can easily spam certain amount of subs, 1 sub more than my opp spams frigs, spam t1 air, and go eco.
Subs are more expensive than frigs, so that won't work mathematically. And you autoloose against anybody who just doesn't build a single frig and instead makes eco.
@gabitii said in My thoughts about balance:
The hover ability of aeon can be removed or not, does not play any role for me, but I think auroras should be buffed in movement speed, in order to allow them to move faster to catch those raids and to dodge against t1 air
Because they hover auroras can turn around a lot faster than other tanks, which makes dodging easier, unless you don't see the bomber coming and your auroras just stand around.
Even then the bomber would need to kill 2 auroras just to kill it's own mass cost worth and it costs like 8 times the e and will leave reclaim, both of the auroras and the bomber if it dies to aa.@gabitii said in My thoughts about balance:
Aircraft carriers:
This is a total useless unit, like literally I do not see any usage of it, it is very bad as an AA ship and very expensive one as a vision unit. They need to be reworked.I think it's a bit weird, their aa has no aoe, given that every other T3 AA option has it, but aside from that they kinda all fill the role of a general multipurpose utility unit. They give you (underwater) vision, sonar/radar, refueling for air support and some AA. Also their AA range is larger than sams, they have more hp so they are harder to kill/snipe than a sam (they got about the same hp/mass as a sam, but it's more concentrated) and they can move faster/cheaper than a sam. That means they can also dodge shots, which a sam cannot.
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@gabitii said in My thoughts about balance:
You may be angry, you may be mad,you can be whatever you want about the fact that the DualGap is the most played map right now. BUT you can not just exculde it from balance or FAF life just because you do not like it. Whether you like it or not, it is the most played map and most of people play it.
It's not excluded from balance because the balance team hates the map, but because the balance the team creates is the one used for tournaments and the competitive scene revolving around those, because that's the only part of the game where rating really matters and that's all the official balance is. It is the balance for rated games and the rating can only represent so much, so the focus is on 1v1-4v4 and a broad range of interesting to watch maps. That's why 8v8 turtle maps are not part of the official balance. This does not mean they want to force everyone to play that balance. So if you think that for the type of game you play, that balance doesn't fit, then feel free to use or create mods that change the balance.
Also the balance team and the dev team are doing all this for free and all of this is open source, so they are in no way ahead of you in creating your vision of the game. So If you want to have a balance for your game make a mod that changes it, if you want a rating system for that, you will have to make one yourself (or at least set up the infrastructure to use an existing one)
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@gabitii I agree with the majority, but unfortunately under this thread there will be two clowns talking nonsense: Mr. 25 Janus and Mr. Groundfire against the stealth fleet, which will nullify all discussions
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Can a downvote button be implemented?
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I don't know. I got left on read when I asked about it on zulip a while ago
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It is implemented already, default feature in this type of forum. Just a question of it being enabled or not.
Forum had it for like the first day, but then a zulip post said it could get used for toxic brigading and that was the end of it.
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@ftxcommando well, it is time then
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your suggestions are garbage
"As t1 subs still get crashed by t1 torpedo launcher (except for sera), I feel that they need to be cheaper OR they need to have more DPS. Both of the options causes an agressive and more open gameplay compared to HP buff."
"The hover ability of aeon can be removed or not, does not play any role for me, but I think auroras should be buffed in movement speed, in order to allow them to move faster to catch those raids and to dodge against t1 air. Someone can say that in that case they can become too powerful against other tanks. But I can include in my spam some arty with tanks and the range will not play so big role, cause aeon has the worst arty in case of attacking mobile units. It is very good againsts buildings usually, like facs or pgens."
"Bring the aeon destro range back or at least to 75, so that it will not lose so much dps, when fighting against sera or UEF."
"To buff an anty navy weapon for aeon, so that it will also impact battles."
"I do not see any compensation for sera not having t3 gunships. Why do not they have?"
"No idea, but the unit is just no present in the game"
"Honestly, I have no idea how to balance it, just want to point out the problem."
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@dmitry11 said in My thoughts about balance:
@gabitii I agree with the majority, but unfortunately under this thread there will be two clowns talking nonsense: Mr. 25 Janus and Mr. Groundfire against the stealth fleet, which will nullify all discussions
Your the one who sounds like a complete clown with this comment.
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@peavywagner said in My thoughts about balance:
your suggestions are garbage
"As t1 subs still get crashed by t1 torpedo launcher (except for sera), I feel that they need to be cheaper OR they need to have more DPS. Both of the options causes an agressive and more open gameplay compared to HP buff."
"The hover ability of aeon can be removed or not, does not play any role for me, but I think auroras should be buffed in movement speed, in order to allow them to move faster to catch those raids and to dodge against t1 air. Someone can say that in that case they can become too powerful against other tanks. But I can include in my spam some arty with tanks and the range will not play so big role, cause aeon has the worst arty in case of attacking mobile units. It is very good againsts buildings usually, like facs or pgens."
"Bring the aeon destro range back or at least to 75, so that it will not lose so much dps, when fighting against sera or UEF."
"To buff an anty navy weapon for aeon, so that it will also impact battles."
"I do not see any compensation for sera not having t3 gunships. Why do not they have?"
"No idea, but the unit is just no present in the game"
"Honestly, I have no idea how to balance it, just want to point out the problem."
Message has no content, just points that this guy has read the message.
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@peavywagner said in My thoughts about balance:
@gabitii
Oh yeah? your post is just shit, there is something wrong with the balance of the game, do a balance patch bitch and after that enjoy the forum posts about how your work is shit instead of whining that the game is unbalanced and pointless balance ideasWhere did I say that the balance is shit? I pointed out the problems for my experience on playing the game. I think either u have reading or english problems, cause I have never said that the balance team’s work is a shit. Why the ideas are pointless? Unlike you at least I analysed and tested before writing this post.
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@tryth wow, is Mr. groundfire against the stealth navy really found? Or is it not him? hmmmm. Who is it?
