The issues with manual reclaim
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Me
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Maybe the previous 15 reclaim threads can give you a hint on the outcome of this one
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I wish engies had aoe on their reclaim so 1000000000 shit trees wouldn't block the stuff I wanted.
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this is the usual situation of bad controls, and with the expected usual excuse of "but there is nothing better to do ingame so its ok" from pros, imo if there is nothing better to do in the game at start than manually clicking rocks, then that's the game itself being bad in beginning in general, outsourcing gameplay to osu simulator doesn't fix the early gameplay, it just makes it annoying to those that don't enjoy clickspamming miningame and gives advantage to those who are good at it (but not necessarily at the game itself) over them, and like said in the op, additional advantage to those who memorized the map reclaim positions and optimal reclaim paths to then execute at start of the game like a recital of memorized text paragraph, there is zero excuse for bad controls that manual reclaim is
anyways for the solution, is it possible to get engineers to retarget reclaim beam automatically (from attack move) as fast as they do when given reclaim order queue manually? ik it would likely ruin the sim speed but it would close the gap between the 2 a bit without any major changes, at least make the engineer consider the next reclaim target while it is reclaiming the current target so it can retarget as soon as it is done without standing there and looking around for almost a full second between auto-reclaims while the manually queued one speedruns the reclaim for no apparent reason
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@Mach it is the time that the engine waits before scanning for new targets. It is similar to the weapon check interval, but in this case there's no value in the blueprint to tweak it.
In general I'm in favor of features that would make the game feel more modern. But this particular example is just not what this engine is made for. To quote myself:
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This already exist it is a SIM mode
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Well, there was a great solution in existence already years ago: Area Attack and Area Reclaim commands. Those are quite natural commands that many other rts come with by default. There was a mod that allowed for those commands, so they where already implemented.
Manual reclaim was still technically better, but you could easily tell engies to reclaim large scattered fields. Sadly, there is considerable resistance from the people in charge regarding improvements to the way the game plays. For some reason clicking rocks was deemed more fun and skill then clicking units (there was little opposition to auto overcharge).
Overall the resistance against improvements in this area probably hurt player retention, the opening post sums up the reasons quite well. Maybe that has a lot to do with perceptions, but that is sometimes all that matters.
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What if Attack moves, always turn to patrol's, instead of going Idle..?
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That would make attack move worse
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Doesn't Attack move have a larger reclaim range? which would make attack move better..
I'm re-thinking my suggestion now... doesn't really help the matter
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Well, there was a great solution in existence already years ago: Area Attack and Area Reclaim commands.
That still exists, they're attack-move commands.
Overall the resistance against improvements in this area probably hurt player retention, the opening post sums up the reasons quite well.
No it doesn't, most of his arguments are senseless or unfounded:
When used properly, it gives additional artificial advantage to those with higher apm on top of the advantage they already get from high apm otherwise.
Having higher skill is rewarded. This should not be controversial.
... that can result in large butterfly effects.
Unfounded.
When used improperly, it's arguably a noob trap.
This translates as: People who do not understand the mechanic are not benefitting from the mechanic/penalized for not using the mechanic. Again, how this somehow is a bad thing is beyond me.
Many people find it annoying/frustrating to do, especially when low-value reclaim is densely mixed with high-value reclaim.
'Many people' unfounded, as the previous threads seem to indicate popular sentiment is against these changes.
And then the rest of the arguments boil down to "people just don't like it because it stresses them out in ladder games". I mean, perhaps playing competitive ladder is not for people who do not want to be competitive. And that's fine! AI games are popular, and that's all well and good. But trying to bring people who don't want to do sweaty competitive play into the competitive scene seems to me like trying to find a non-answer to a non-problem and is impressively counterintuitive.
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Attack move commands from that units inherit from a factory have an increased range, but normal attack-move commands given to a unit do not.
If your engineers go idle with attack-move commands, that indicates that they either have nothing to reclaim anymore, or your storages are full. You can chain several attack-move orders, spacing them somewhat apart, so that when the first attack-move command is completed/invalidated, the engineer moves on to the next (by when they're hopefully next to new reclaim or your storages have depleted some).
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I don't see how manual reclaim is breaking the game. With all the scout laming, tree clumps have never been weaker. Most of the time they just break because of lamers and all those clicks are for nothing.
With regards to maps like Wonder where you need to manually reclaim to get the mass in the craters, that is a calculated risk you must take. Some players prefer not to take so much mass but instead shoot the enemy commander. Some prefer to take the damage and keep reclaiming. It is a delicate balancing act between how much you should reclaim vs how much you should fight with com. This decision is skill expression.
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