AI-Uveso (v113) - AI mod for FAForever

corruptpony

First I must say that my friends and I really like this AI, well done

But we think we may have found a small issue.

This was on seton's clutch and happend in two separate games.

We were 1 hour+ into the game and we had to defend against nukes and experimentals from the enemy AI. But when we fired a nuke ourselfs from the backmost spot, the AI had a massive base but no nuke defenses.

We think this is caused by the AI not knowning we had build the nuke launcher (no units could get near the base in the back).

Could you tell us if the AI should always be builiding a nuke defence?

Uveso

@corruptpony

thanks you for your kind words about my AI!

Your guess is right, you protected the nuke launcher, so the AI could not scout it.

Since the AI is not cheating in the way that its using a map hack or something like that, you can
foul the AI with good protectiong or cloak/stealth units.
(Or use onmi-view from the lobby options to disable fog of war for the AI)

There are 4 builder that are responsible for anti nuke buildings.

The first builder checks if the enemy has at least 1 nuke launcher:
https://github.com/Uveso/AI-Uveso/blob/master/lua/AI/AIBuilders/Base Defense.lua#L673
So it will only build a nuke defense if it can see more than 0 nuke launchers on the enemy player.

The second Builder is building nuke defenses depending on the enemy launcher / own defense ratio
https://github.com/Uveso/AI-Uveso/blob/master/lua/AI/AIBuilders/Base Defense.lua#L702
it will build 0.8 times defenses than enemy nukes.
That means it will build 4 defenses to defend against 5 Launchers.
(the first defense under 0.8 will be build from the first builder)

Then the special case if an enemy player has an "Yolona Oss" (Seraphim Experimental Launcher)
https://github.com/Uveso/AI-Uveso/blob/master/lua/AI/AIBuilders/Base Defense.lua#L732
Here we build 3 nuke defenses for every "Yolona Oss" from the enemy.

Last but not least the counter for Nuke-Subs
https://github.com/Uveso/AI-Uveso/blob/master/lua/AI/AIBuilders/Base Defense.lua#L760
Here we build 1 additional defense for every 2 nuke submarines.

Do you think the AI should build at least 1 nuke defense without knowing the existence of an enemy nuke launcher ?
If so, when or under what buildconditions would you like it?

corruptpony

@Uveso

Thanks for the reply.

At least one nuke defence in the main part of the base makes sense.

We always build them as soon as we have a few T3 energy generators up, because we know at the 35 min mark they will come and we want to have plenty of defence.

So somewhere not too long after reaching T3, but maybe not have them fill up competely since they cost a fair amount of mass to build them.

Radde

@Uveso

Hello there!
I've been playing against AI Uveso for several years. I often host the most insane games when it comes to difficulty. 2.0 build cheat multiplier and from 2.5 to 4.0 resources cheat multplier, so i guess I am experienced in this topic and I would like to give You my feedback.

First of all, great job in creating such a fun mod! As i said before i've been using it for several years and it's because it's so much fun that i keep challenging myself in trying to win harder and harder games against your AI.

I used to play against classic supcom AI back in the days... and it was not only weak but it also had several issues such as slowing the game the longer it lasts. I was happy that FAF has implemented the new Sorian AI which didn't have this issue, and the AI was much more challenging and fun. But unfortunately Sorian AI had issues aswell... for example it didn't make t3 arty or game enders due to a bug. When i installed Uveso AI and tried it i was really impressed about it... AI destroyed me in few minutes and i couldn't believe how smart and reactive it was. The tactics it used were on another level... something that sorian couldn't pull off. Air was used correctly in hordes, gunship ambushes, teleport SACUS, crashing experimentals on strategic buildings, smart nukes.

It took me few years to master how to play against it and there are few things that could be changed to improve players experience. In early versions of AI it used to launch nukes as soon as it is loaded unless AI scouts an smd in players base. It used to be annoying to rush the smd before min 13 just to prevent AI from nuking. The 35 minute mark was a great improvement since we don't have to rush an smd anymore, players can focus on other stuff and when the time gets closer to ~30min we can start building an smd. Here is my question:

Is it possible to expose some parameters in a game lobby such as:
Time before AI can start building t3 arty
Time before AI can start building game enders?
In current version of this AI there is similar problem to nuke time mark, and the problem is with arties that AI can start building very early due to high economic boost. Most of the time AI finishes an arty before min 22 which is hard to deal with, and the greater eco boost the earlier the arty is built. I would rather deal with more units or earlier experimentals before 25 min than being focused on tanking an arty and building my own to deal with it. Making it possible to decide when players can expect such dangers would improve our experience!

Experimental crashing is the thing that i would get rid of. It's either annoying or pointless and let me elaborate on that.
First of all, most of the flying experimentals are used by the AI to be crashed... i don't remember if it was the other way back in the days, but i haven't seen many flying exps being used the ''normal'' way, for example bombing with ahwassa or harrasing lone mexes with the soul ripper. When we see an experimental we're like ''Oh, i wonder where its gona crash'' cuz it's used that way 95% if the time... same goes for gunships but gunships most of the time are used properly, but sometimes they're flying towards something in a straight line and crashing at pointless stuff.
Second of all, it's annoying when experimental crashes perfectly on the most important building, for example pgen next to t3 arty which ends the game for players... 20 minutes wasted because AI has decided to perfectly position his ahwasa and crush it on something that is the only hope for the player team.
And the last thing about experimental crushing is that AI most of the time is targeting pointless stuff. Crashing an experimental on t3 mex is a huge mass donation, but it may target things like walls on the front (It may sound absurd but AI actually does that and i have some replays of it). That's why its either pointless or annoying, it may end the game by crashing on our smds or t3 arty or it may make a huge mass donation.

I'm looking forward for the future updates! Great work so far

left_boy

Well in real pvp games players also use experimental bombers for crashing them into stuff

Uveso

@axel12

Thanks for your opinion about pvp games!

Back to topic:

Feedback about the AI
Posibillity to add a game option for start building a T3 Arty
Posibillity to add a game option for start building game enders in general
AI is wasting units on Aircrash. (too predicable, wasting mass, wrong targets)
Adjusting AI for better player experience.

@Radde

Thank you for you kind and helpfull feedback.

Yes it is possible to add a game option like "no rush" for gameenders.
I have never thought about that because i use unit mods like Total Mayhem and my own nuclear repulsor shields. Those shields can easily defend against T3 arty and can be build right after the first T3 pgen.
Take a look at the shield mod, maybe this is already what you are searching for, or at least it can help for a while.

You can find the shield mod and some others here:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/364/updated-mods-for-faf-and-vanilla-steam

The Aircrash function is not well developed, and was the first attempt to make suicidal experimentals.
So there is much room for improvement and adjustments like target priority and so on.
I will have a look on it.

Btw, did you also test the other AIs for FAF or only AI-Uveso?
Do you know AI-Swarm, RNGAI, SCTA AI, SorianEdit, M27AI, DalliAI, SACUAI ?
Have you ever heard about the LOUD AI project?

If not, join us on the AI-developer Discord for more information:
https://discord.gg/ChRfhB3

[Edit] Radde, please do me a favor and post a game.log from your last game.
I just want to check your game options and debug information from my AI.

rifqy321

i have a smalls issue with this mod, my game got slower when running 4vs4

Uveso

@rifqy321 said in AI-Uveso (v98) - AI mod for FAForever:

i have a smalls issue with this mod, my game got slower when running 4vs4

Please post your game.log
(use https://pastebin.com/ and only post the link)

Uveso

Update 29.Mar.2022(v99)

New: Added lobby option and buildconditions for gameender build start
Opt: Strategic missile defense will now also be build in case the AI can't see any enemy nuke launchers.
Fix: fixed a cache bug inside the mass and hydro CanBuild function.
Fix: fixed a bug in case the cdr.LastDamaged variable is not set
Fix: excluded OPERATION units from ACU platoon (uec0001 UEF Civilian Truck)
Fix: fixed a bug in removing a naval factory from mainbase manager and assign it to naval base manager

v_k

@uveso said in AI-Uveso (v99) - AI mod for FAForever:

Update 29.Mar.2022(v99)

New: Added lobby option and buildconditions for gameender build start

Opt: Strategic missile defense will now also be build in case the AI can't see any enemy nuke launchers.

Fix: fixed a cache bug inside the mass and hydro CanBuild function.

Fix: fixed a bug in case the cdr.LastDamaged variable is not set

Fix: excluded OPERATION units from ACU platoon (uec0001 UEF Civilian Truck)

Fix: fixed a bug in removing a naval factory from mainbase manager and assign it to naval base manager

Great to see the SMD will be built anyway. Most human players would build one after some time when the eco allows it even without any SML scouted, because you never know and you definitely do not want to be nuked from a unit/structure you missed.

Uveso

@v_k said in AI-Uveso (v99) - AI mod for FAForever:

Great to see the SMD will be built anyway. Most human players would build one after some time when the eco allows it even without any SML scouted, because you never know and you definitely do not want to be nuked from a unit/structure you missed.

Nuke subs are the reason why we need to do this.
You can easily build a nuke sub without the AI seeing it.

Matthus

Hey @Uveso, I just wanted to say that my friends and I love this mod! You did a fantastic job and I really appreciate all the work you've done developing and updating it.

Uveso

@Matthus

Many many thanks.
I am glad that you and your friends like my mod.

Did you also tested the other AIs that are available for FAF?
We always try to keep our AI mods compatible to each other, so you can also use different AIs together.

Matthus

@uveso Yes, my friend and I just did a 2 v 2 versus an AIx-Swarm (Eternal) and an AIx-Uveso (Adaptive). Both mods worked perfectly! I got rushed by the Eternal and lost. 10/10

bsee

Does AI-Uveso currently work with Total Mayhem and the BlackOps mods? For the last 3-6 months only the Aeon AI plays well. Aeon builds plenty T4 of all types). UEF builds almost no T4 land. Very rarely I'll see them build a single Fatboy. It's definitely not a mass issue. This has been repeated across many games.

Uveso

@bsee

Thanks for reporting this.
I am not aware of any faction related bugs.

in case you have played online can you provide me a replay ID where this happened ?

bsee

https://replay.faforever.com/16710956
Total Mayhem & Blackops enabled. Cybran plays normal. UEF only builds T4 structures. We disabled teleporting, nukes, satellite, and a couple more. I can find more replays if needed.

Uveso

@bsee

Thaks a lot!

Well yes, the AIs can have wheird behaviors when you disable single units.

On the UEF side unit xeb2402 is always forced to build first. (Experimental Satellite System)
With no Satellite the UEF will not build the fatboy (or other category 3+ experimentals).

Also having the nuclear repulsor shields mod on and blocking the city and metro shield is also not advised.
They have a buildpriority of 12000 and 13000. Most builders have a priority of 1000 or less.
So in case the platoonformer selects a new building it will always select the shiled platoon first, but
can't start build because they are restricted.
The problem is, if the mod finds the village shields then its clear you can build shilds.
Restricting the upgrade will not be recognized by the mod.

bsee

@uveso I've played a few more games and the AI definitely plays better with all units enabled. Enabling nukes seems to make them smarter too. We've been able to disable cybran metropolis shields and have Cybran still play well. However, UEF seems to need everything enabled.

Would it be possible for the AI to know if city/metropolis shields are disabled?

Other odd quirks:

Cybran drives the experimental artillery into my base.
Nuke subs don't launch nukes?
AI builds way too many stellarators. This makes their base very explosive.
Sometimes UEF builds satellites and never moves them.
I've never seen the ai build the experimental nuke. Not sure if this is a uveso-ai problem. Sorian doesn't seem to build it either.

Uveso

@bsee

thanks for the great feedback!

i try to fix some of the issues with v100