A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy
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Seraphim t1 sub is generally considered the worst of the bunch, and with the recent destroyer changes, the sera destro is also struggling to keep up past the micro stage of t2 navy. Finally, the t3 sub hunter still loses mass for mass against t2 cybran sub hunters ( actually, every single unit in the sera navy loses mass to mass vs the cybran t2 sub).
my solution is simple: either increase sera t1 sub's anti torp fire rate, or make it a torpedo flair instead.
By doing this, seraphim will use their sub like a cooper or mermaid later in the game, due to it being the cheapest access to anti torps in the game. This will create a unique playstyle, offer good sera players a slightly better game under the water, and causing them to have a more engaging playstyle. -
Where did you find this general opinion? I've never heard anyone saying sera t1 subs are the worst before right now.
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Sera T1 subs murder any other T1 sub.
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AFAIK all destroyers except UEF beat sub hunters mass-for-mass, as in one destroyer beats 2 sub hunters. Does torp defense make much difference in larger numbers?
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Phim destro doesnt beat sub hunters. It would be OP if it did, why would you ever bother surfacing?
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I'm pretty sure last time I tested phim destroyer versus 2 sub hunters, it killed both with 30% of its health remaining. It actually did better than Cybran destroyer, which was left at around 25%.
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@yeager said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:
actually, every single unit in the sera navy loses mass to mass vs the cybran t2 sub
After one of my comments, destroyers got fixed (althought you spoke about it much before me). So now destroyers (besides UEF) are supposed to win quite well against submarines. Supposed... I just ran a fast sandbox, and it seems that they are broken again. 1 Sera destro barely wins against 2 subhunters, but in bigger groups they get wrecked by subhunters. Althought maybe less than in the past...
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@mazornoob said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:
I'm pretty sure last time I tested phim destroyer versus 2 sub hunters, it killed both with 30% of its health remaining. It actually did better than Cybran destroyer, which was left at around 25%.
In big numbers phim destro loses massively due to no torp defense while sub hunters have decent defense.
The inability to deal with sub hunter spam is why phim t2 navy can never lose air.
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Okay, I stand corrected. Good to know.
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Since when Seraphim destros have no torp defence???
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don't sera t1 subs lose in 1v1 to any other t1 sub?
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@wikingest said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:
Since when Seraphim destros have no torp defence???
It has torp defense, it’s just really bad. That’s why it can’t just viably be a sub, the submerging is a defense mechanic against close range swarms of uef destro or frigs.
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@zlo said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:
don't sera t1 subs lose in 1v1 to any other t1 sub?
Idk about 1v1 but sera sub is the only really viable sub to do Yudi style sub spam gimmicks because of the torp defense. I don’t really think that’s a justification for the unit to stay what it is though since that isn’t really intended gameplay nor is it really any good just funny. A more defensively focused sub would be cool to play around with.
The fact sera has hover engies also means they aren’t insanely destroyed by a lack of early torp options, though it will be a pain to deal with underwater mexes though maps with them suck anyway psycho
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@ftxcommando said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:
no torp defense
Yeah, I thought this was a lie. Sera destroyers surface to have more dps and range. And if they would not surface, Aeon destroyers would hard crush them.
Sera destros were quite good against subs, and I dont remember balance change, that states that one faction on t2 navy needs to solely count on air.
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imho sera battleship is the best at ground firing subs thanks to his high rate of fire
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@wikingest said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:
@ftxcommando said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:
no torp defense
Yeah, I thought this was a lie. Sera destroyers surface to have more dps and range. And if they would not surface, Aeon destroyers would hard crush them.
Sera destros were quite good against subs, and I dont remember balance change, that states that one faction on t2 navy needs to solely count on air.
They’ve never been good against t2 subs
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imo underwater units shouldn't be able to get groundfired by surface weapon
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@ftxcommando said in A small rework/ buff to sera t1 sub to rebalance their navy:
They’ve never been good against t2 subs
Yes they were good, I had similar results as @MazorNoob.
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So you also saw they lose in real game numbers not some sandbox 1v1? Great.
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So you recognise that you lied once more. And now you pretend, that unit statistics are different in sandbox? And we are supposed to believe it?
