A small buff to Cybran and maybe sera Carrier AA


So while it's not bad as it used to be(could literally move t2 transports inside aa range without taking damage) I feel like they could still use some love, as it stands now their weaponry tends to miss a lot of shots versus faster moving targets inside it's AA range.
With worst case scenario being showed on the video where a t3 spyplane is able to infinitely circle around cybran carrier without getting shot once(that is until I make it slow down and fly in straight line)

The same problem happens with the sera carriers though I haven't been able to make a scout fly infinitely around it, as it seems like it just misses a lot of shots but is capable of taking down the spy plane given some time(might be due to higher firing tolerance?).

Obviously the spyplanes are a speedy bunch but other t3 air units also tend to avoid a lot of the carriers DPS making them IMO weaker than intended against the t3 air units. Also, it seems to be mainly affecting the laser weaponry of cybran and sera as the Aeon and Uef don't struggle nearly as much due to the tracking properties of the AA missiles they use.

Honestly I have no clue what could be done to make them perform better, but maybe a slight tracking capabilities like in the case of sera sam might prove to be just enough to make them actually better performing against fast t3 air units or slight velocity buff for it's weaponry might do the trick.


It's quite possible that the problem is not the weapon at all - but the collision sphere of the air unit. Let's talk about that for a second.

The game basically executes 10 steps per second - so, for example, an ASF which might have a speed of 30 - will move 3 ogrids in distance with each 'tick' of the clock.

If the collision sphere is not 3 ogrids in size - then there is a 'hole' in the process - and shots aimed at the expected position of the air unit (which is what the leadtarget flag does) can potentially calculate a hit - but, in fact miss.

This is a flaw in the simulation basis - and to properly deal with it, as the speed of a unit increases above 10 (only really air units), the collision sphere (air units have a spherical collision object) must GROW to compensate - as a result, fast air units will have collision sphere's dramatically greater than the unit itself.

Increasing the muzzle velocity of the AA guns will have a slight impact on this dynamic, only in the respect that the 'lead' of the weapon will be reduced, but - it can, and will, still miss - just less often.


Yeah, I don't want to have 100% hit rate. I just don't wanna see stuff like this when an air unit is capable of flying over an aircraft carrier without taking any damage at all. Which can happen not only to the spyplanes but also to asf and in some instances even to strat bombers skirting around the max aa range(which is what made me revisit this thing again after seeing it happen on stream)

That's why I think introducing small amount of tracking like in case of the sera sam (which uses the exact same weapon as the carrier but with tweaked numbers and small tracking) could be the way to go. Some misses will still happen just like in the case of missile based weaponry of aeon/uef but it won't be nowhere as bad as the current situation. Basically they just need a small nudge, nothing too big.


Introducing tracking into a normal projectile isn't something you just turn on - the projectile must actually be a missile with turn rates, and all the other parameters that make a missile work, including a tracking script. It's a potential can of worms. Rather check the SizeSphere value for the planes you seem to have trouble hitting - to insure they are even close to correct.

For the weapons, check if they are direct fire - or flak - as that makes a huge difference, flak can miss, but still detonate at the target height (which is how it compensates for being a slower projectile). Also check the weapons accuracy values - especially tolerance - you won't hit if the weapon is not lined up on target - no matter what you do. For AA weapons, that value should be zero. Lastly - if they are turreted - make sure the turret yaw and pitch are high enough to bring the weapon on target, and keep it there.

I cannot tell you the number of times all of the above parameters were the real cause of targeting issues. This game, fortunately, blesses us with a fairly robust physical simulation - but a lot of units are not entirely up to snuff with all those values.


@randomwheelchair Cybran cruiser AA locks down enemy spyplanes right?
dont buff other units just to indirectly nerf spyplanes. you will nerf all air indirectly with that type of changes.


Like I said, it's not just spyplanes, it's other fast moving units too. Cybran carriers are capable of missing more than half the shots against ASF and Strats if their are skirting their AA range or flying at certain angles. Sera is also prone to missing few shots thought it's nowhere as bad as in Cybran case. Meanwhile UEF and AEON get to chill with way more reliable carrier AA options.

So I wouldn't call it a nerf to air units, rather bringing up the cybran carrier up to par with other AA options instead of having it incapable of using at times more than half it's DPS due to "randomly" missing the shots. I think that the unit should be more or less reliable in one of it's intended roles instead of sometimes working properly or sometimes not when other factions have nearly 100% reliable units of the same class. I'm not asking it to be suddenly be as great as aeon one but it could use some love.


T3 Carriers in general are far from overpowered so I don’t think anyone would complain if they got more accurate.

put the xbox units in the game pls u_u


Nah, not really. Imo they are mostly in a very good spot considering how buff they are for only double the cost of normal cruiser.( 5x times more HP, though with around half the DPS per mass) Meaning it's not as easy to one pass them as the cruisers meaning you can have your DPS stay alive for much, much longer unless your opponent can get over 30 torps per carrier to one pass them.

It's just that cybran carrier is basically futuristic WW2 carrier with all of the drawbacks. From tending to miss more than half the shots against fast moving targets to being unable to use half it's weaponry if you approach it from the port or starboard side due to the AA placements. Sure it have highest theoritical DPS(40 points higher than aeon) but it often can't use it compared to other carriers that can use all of their weaponry to cover the whole area around them. And that's not even taking into account that aeon barely misses it's shots while having "only" 40dmg lower dps.

So the point is, in theory Cybran carrier is a beast, in practice it's really not so great. To the point that if you approach it from the side it can only output 320 Dps, that is if it will hit the target, where all the other carriers can output their full DPS at all times.


The Cybran cruiser already fires missiles which track, @Sprouto there is a difference between a tracking projectile and a missile, a tracking projectile requires merely one or two blueprint changes, only tactical missiles and nukes require a script to make them work, they are not tracking either