@IceDreamer said in Fire beetle balance suggestion:
Balancing them as a pure snipe unit again won't work. They were like that before, and they were OP, then UP, then OP, then UP... It just can't be done. FFS, give up! Try something new!
If they are OP, then UP, it seems there must be a middle ground, no? "We've never done it before, therefore, it can't be done" is not only defeatist but a logical fallacy. Rather than saying, "give up, it can't be done," I think your argument would be more effective if you acknowledged both sides and then stated why landmines are a better option. Saying they are the only option is not very appealing.
@IceDreamer said in Fire beetle balance suggestion:
Pearl, your argument that the guy had already lost is disingenuous and silly. A pair of well-placed OCs are easily capable of rescuing that situation, and for all we know Air was on its way, so Bombers wouldn't have achieved what Mercies did.
I'm not saying pink will definitely die, I'm saying pink has lost, at the moment, because they have less mass on the field. If you and I play a game and I have your ACU surrounded by 10 pillars, no, you may not die... but in that moment you have lost. The game is about accumulating, spending, and positioning mass. From that screenshot, it appears to me that pink has accumulated and spent less mass than their opponent. It's not that it can't be turned around. But it's also not a great moment to use to argue that mercies are OP, since pink is clearly behind even without the mercies on the field. Even if it was, it's a pretty small sample size.
Also, I count 13, possibly 14 beetles. It would require some skilled OC'ing indeed to counter that many plus already being in range of the enemy ACU.
@IceDreamer said in Fire beetle balance suggestion:
Fact of the matter is that ALL of this game's pure snipe weapons have been mired in controversy for years because they don't feel good to play against. At that point balanced or not isn't the question, it's whether people quit the game entirely for not being fun any more!!! Mercies, TMLs, Beetles, Strats, Telemazer... People don't like them very much.
It's not controversy, it's discomfort. Losing never feels good, and one way people cope with difficult feelings is by complaining. That doesn't mean the way you lost needs to be changed. It needs to be changed if it is consistently unfair or unbalanced—regardless of how it feels. And there is an easy, fair, balanced, accessible solution to mercies: scout. The same direct, effective counterplay that works for strats.
I think a lot of people like mercies, tmls, beetles, strats, and tele quite a bit. Because one of the most fun aspects of this game is pulling back a seemingly lost game. And they all have easy counters:
(wait for it)
scout.
@IceDreamer said in Fire beetle balance suggestion:
This is why landmines is the only possible route forwards. TMLs have direct counterplay. Strats are T3 and have direct, very effective counterplay. Mercies have direct counterplay. Telemazer has direct counterplay. Yet even with the counterplay in effect, the mobility of the assualt allows it to still be useful. The same is untrue for beetles. The same approach will never work.
Try. Something. New.
Landmines are not the only possible route moving forwards. There are many routes forward, some better than others. Maybe landmines are the route we will choose, but I don't think you'll get many people in your boat if you aren't willing to consider other options. On an emotional level (since you are talking about how snipes make people feel), saying "I'm right and you're wrong" rarely works, but saying, "I understand where you're coming from, and there are parts of it I agree with. Here's why what I'm thinking would be slightly better" tends to garner a lot more responsiveness.
Anyway, you still haven't answered some of the most basic questions about the mechanics of landmines. I'd love to learn more about them. For example:
- How are they seen before and after deployment? Radar only?
- How are they countered? Are there special disarming units for every faction?
- Do beetles no longer do any damage unless they are "buried" first? Does that mean they can longer do damage to buildings, or anything that's not moving?