Idea: Extended veterancy
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Expansion of the veterans system.
An expansion of the experience bar cap is proposed, along with an adjustment to the required amount of mass to reach subsequent levels of progress.
The proposal is based on ideas and their implementations in various projects. Much of this comes from the veterancy reward concept for destroyed mass from the FAF developers, another part from the modification in Total Veterancy (by Eni's), and others from other strategy games like C&C, Company of Heroes, etc.
The excessive buffing occurring in Total Veterancy (by Eni's) is proposed to be avoided by reducing the buff effect received with leveling. The effect is reduced every 3 levels.The experience cap is proposed to be significantly expanded. However, restrictions on the maximum possible unit level should be introduced depending on the tech level.
For example: for T1 – 7 levels, for T2 – 10 levels, for T3 – 13 levels, and for T4 – 16 levels.For example:
Every subsequent 3 levels, the veterancy effect is 1/3, 1/4, or 1/5 less than the previous 3-level scale step. (Every 3 levels, the veterancy effect is 1/4 or 1/5 less, counting from the previous 3-level scale step.) (These values are approximate.)Additionally.
In addition to the standard progression, an additional line of buffs is offered for each unit type: land, water, and air. Additional buffs are introduced at a certain level and increase the unit's effectiveness.For example, for ground units:
- every level, speed increases by 1%.
- every 2 levels...
- every 3 levels, damage and range of all the unit's weapons increases by 3%.
- every 5 levels, the unit's defensive field is created or increased by 15% of its durability.
Additionally, for each specific progression level, larger one-time bonuses can be assigned that strengthen the unit that has reached that level. - at level 7... 9, etc...
This change is intended to diversify the gameplay, where there may be a desire to give units as much veterancy as possible. The introduction of individual buffed units will have little effect on the balance. But with a large number of units with high veterancy levels, an unexpected advantage may appear, all other things being equal.
The idea combines well with the "experience fabricator" presented earlier.
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I don't think the idea is bad. That would give the veterans more weight and also make them somewhat more robust.
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While i would love something like this, the problem is that any buff is way more powerful for some units than others. Kiting units getting speed is an example for that.
To balance this you would have to adjust the buffs based on the unit and then it becomes inconsistent and hard to track.
Maybe a way to fix that is to have a tooltip of what vet does for this unit but have fun balancing that, as that would require tons of effort.
Of course you could also just ignore that vet impacts some units more than others (it basically already does that, because health is more relevant to some than others). -
In this case, the Seraphim will have a greater advantage due to their passive regeneration system on the commander, as it's easier to heal and level up damaged units with the Seraphim faction. Other factions won't have such capabilities.
Secondly, i think, it will break the balance of experimental units, because their current stats/cost take into account the increase in health and regeneration from veterancy (I hope), in which case, for example, how to balance 5 Colossi and spiders in their equivalent, because the spider has much less health, which means it is easier to kill, and more difficult to upgrade.
Moreover, this may reduce the players' desire to build regular units, because experimental units will be upgraded on them.
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I don't think the idea is bad. That would give the veterans more weight and also make them somewhat more robust.
While i would love something like this, the problem is that any buff is way more powerful for some units than others. Kiting units getting speed is an example for that.
To balance this you would have to adjust the buffs based on the unit and then it becomes inconsistent and hard to track.
Maybe a way to fix that is to have a tooltip of what vet does for this unit but have fun balancing that, as that would require tons of effort.
Of course you could also just ignore that vet impacts some units more than others (it basically already does that, because health is more relevant to some than others).Okay, we're waiting for the moderators' opinion on this idea... I really hope that it will be implemented, in the proposed form or in some other form.
.In this case, the Seraphim will have a greater advantage due to their passive regeneration system on the commander, as it's easier to heal and level up damaged units with the Seraphim faction. Other factions won't have such capabilities.
I'm almost certain that everything can be further adjusted for the Seraphim; if a decision is made, additional balancing will still be required.
.Secondly, i think, it will... ...to upgrade.
Moreover, this may reduce the players' desire to build regular units, because experimental units will be upgraded on them.
There aren't many experimental units, and you can set up personal veterancy gain trajectories for them.
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Okay, we're waiting for the moderators' opinion on this idea... I really hope that it will be implemented, in the proposed form or in some other form.
This is not really something to be approved or denied by the moderation team, but balance team.
For something like this to uave any chance it would have to exist as a mod first. Me and AI could look into this but there will always be something not balanced right or declined, so i dont have any big hopes.Regardless, the main issue will be the strong singular units will become even more powerful. Take tele-laser acu for example. It teleports into a base and gets vet like crazy, same for almost any experimental or billy nuke. I wouldnt even know how to balance this
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This is not really something to be approved or denied by the moderation team, but balance team.
For something like this to uave any chance it would have to exist as a mod first. Me and AI could look into this but there will always be something not balanced right or declined, so i dont have any big hopes.Regardless, the main issue will be the strong singular units will become even more powerful. Take tele-laser acu for example. It teleports into a base and gets vet like crazy, same for almost any experimental or billy nuke. I wouldnt even know how to balance this
Interesting.
I suspect that fears that the tele-laser and billy nuke will become greatly unbalanced are greatly exaggerated.
The proposed experience accumulation here is nonlinear, just like the gain decreases with level.
Here, fewer experience levels could be made for the acu... As a last resort.On the other hand, if the Experimental has reached the base, it only means someone has already lost. And it makes no difference whether the Kolos left the base at level 5 or 16.
If you can find the time, do it. The main thing is to ensure the main part is balanced. Rare imbalances can be identified and corrected individually.
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There was a mod, many years back, called Total Veterancy - that extended the concept pretty much along the lines described above. It was quite popular, balance issues aside.
The primary drawback of this method is performance. Unit buffs are very memory intensive - especially when considering stacking multiple unique buffs, and even moreso when you consider that buffs are stored per unit - this adds up VERY quickly, not just for adding and removing the buffs, but the amount of memory consumed by each buff, for each unit, grows very quickly and will grow to a point where it will lead to memory cap crashes.
The mechanics for doing this work are pretty sound, but fairly code heavy.
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While total veterancy existed it took it to the extreme which never had any chance to be implemented. It was meant as a fun mod and not as potential game addition.
But considering the buffs are so ressource heavy this will be something to test aswell.
I already have a different mod that adds unit buffs where i dont think i noticed any performance issues, but will check again -
There was a mod, many years back, called Total Veterancy - that extended the concept pretty much along the lines described above. It was quite popular, balance issues aside.
The primary drawback of this method is performance. Unit buffs are very memory intensive - especially when considering stacking multiple unique buffs, and even moreso when you consider that buffs are stored per unit - this adds up VERY quickly, not just for adding and removing the buffs, but the amount of memory consumed by each buff, for each unit, grows very quickly and will grow to a point where it will lead to memory cap crashes.
The mechanics for doing this work are pretty sound, but fairly code heavy.
Total Veterancy now includes veterancy for literally everything that works.
All extractors, generators, and factories level up simply by existing. Acu and construction engineers, and even units produced by factories, had a % of the factory's veterancy.
Hence the memory issues.This version offers a very limited version, which eliminates the madness and chaos of crowds of upgraded units.
Like an acu upgraded at level 100 on a construction site, which can detonate everything at a huge distance with one shot.
I am sure that everything should work out correctly here, distortions are possible (acu seraphim), but they can be compensated for separately.
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So I just wanted to post an update regarding this @dim-a-mid ... It is definitely doable, but honestly I was kind of overwhelmed with what buff to give what unit on vet, so I kinda just let it hang. If you want I can send you what I have and just have some placeholder buffs or just do damage for all and you can try to figure out yourself what buff to give what unit. But this (not really surprising) was too much effort for me to decide "yeah this units gets range as a buff, and this gets speed", so its either damage or you'll have to do it yourself (or use AI).
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send it to me pls
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send it to me pls
Sorry for the late reply... whats your discord name? I can send it there
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@Nuggets
Unfortunately, I haven't used Discord for over a year due to blocking.
Maybe you could upload this to Google Drive, for example? -
@Nuggets
Unfortunately, I haven't used Discord for over a year due to blocking.
Maybe you could upload this to Google Drive, for example?Sent as pm
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