Smol ACU Adjustment

@ftxcommando said in Smol ACU Adjustment:

why are you guys like 1200 if u can manual oc spam while doing proper base management i cant do that

im 1200 and auto oc is my best friend:P i manually oc ed when i was lower rank, but the possibility to do base stuff (funneling all the reclaim that the oc gun com lets behind e.g.) made me just turn on auto. i know i should do it manually to be a better player, but there are much bigger problems in my gameplay befor i fix this.

maybe you can make the com stop walking for a little longer wih auto oc, bcs i have the feeling that most times its no disandvantage to use auto oc or to make a higher "reload" time, so you have to use it more strategic and manual oc would have a much higher worth, bcs you dont want to risk that your com blasts away a single t1 maa when there is no air around.

Well for auto-oc to exist it would basically need to be something at around the 1k rating where you start to consider the trade-offs on it being not worth it. It should effectively be worthless at the 1500+ level. I have no idea what the penalties should be to make those the intended rating ranges for it.

Make it always pick the target that takes the longest time to rotate the turret?

@mazornoob said in Smol ACU Adjustment:

Make it always pick the target that takes the longest time to rotate the turret?

For someone trying so hard to make beetles different you sure don't mind throwing retarded ideas around when it doesn't come to the unit you like.

You are supposed to make OC tad bit worse, not make it retarded all around gimmick that is better off being removed.

it's called a joke

@xiaomao said in Smol ACU Adjustment:

You are supposed to make OC tad bit worse, not make it retarded all around gimmick that is better off being removed.

That's what someone at your rating should be thinking it is, though.

@ftxcommando said in Smol ACU Adjustment:

@xiaomao said in Smol ACU Adjustment:

You are supposed to make OC tad bit worse, not make it retarded all around gimmick that is better off being removed.

That's what someone at your rating should be thinking it is, though.

My point is that it shouldn't be made something that literally punishes you for using it, to the point you are better of not using it at all. Cuz at that point you are better of just removing it all together.

Well, yeah. You use it if you're so bad at the game you literally can never zoom in on your ACU because you are too busy looking at your eco bars. So you turn it on because it is strictly superior to OC stuff badly to never OC'ing at all.

idk why it is even a consideration to make something act worse even for "balance", there is already enough bad unit behavior without making additional things work worse, they should only improve and be balanced around their proper behavior

also don't understand why or how you are supposed to make things be used differently based on rating, as if rating is some kind of physical parameter that can consistently or at all effect whether a unit functions or not

basically to make auto OC worse than manual OC you have to either make it act stupid (like mazor joked and I obviously disagree with such change) or have it physically a different and weaker weapon (makes no sense but at least the controls are intact, however now you have a weapon that only exists while you are manually using it (in an rts game)), and it already is better to manually OC if you can spare apm as you can pick better targets or wait a second for units to clump up instead of spamming it off-cooldown and hit less units with it, the only advantage auto OC has is it can shoot without stopping the ACU movement and other orders and ofc, without player babysitting the ACU and instead playing the game

Somehow your take is that auto oc is more 'playing the game' than manual oc. Incredible.

my take is units should attack things on their own instead of having to be told manually to do so for each shot, yes

last I checked this was a strategy game

Saying a “strategy” is involved presupposes a choice is being made. That choice is between manual and auto-oc. Saying a unit should attack automatically (therefore arguing manual might as well as be removed) actively removes the largest strategic element of OC. Can you try to maintain a coherent point instead of immediately walking away from gameplay reality to do schizo philosophy debates?

This point is just entirely built on keeping auto-OC. It does a grand total of 0 to justify auto-OC not being nerfed significantly. As currently, there is basically zero decision-making in using auto-OC or not. It’s simply too good and powerful even at the highest level of the game.

Ultimately, OC is fun. Fun mechanics in a game should be where skill depth tries to be located in order to further motivate people to continue playing and actively improve while doing so. Auto-OC being as efficient as it is essentially nullifies a huge aspect of proper attention management in this game mattering because you get near equivalent value from OC by hitting a button. The mechanic of auto-OC should be a crutch for new players and already be seen as a skill issue in the 1000-1500 bracket with 1500+ actively moving away from it. Same as overbuilding pgens is for macro at this game.

I agree with the manual only overcharge as it should be a skill bonus for paying attention to your acu

however i think an unupgraded com is weak af already so i wouldnt like the gun nerf so much

Anyone remember the Snipe option on most units and how it was ultimately removed because positioning became insanely important? Nerfing Auto-OC might introduce the same problem (admittedly to a lesser degree the higher your skill), the player caught unaware by a push will be dealing much lower damage until they turn their attention to the fight. If the opponent gets 2 extra OCs in, doesn't that have the potential of turning into "oh you looked away from your com for a few seconds, now you're dead" ? More so if you intend to skew the damage dealt by the ACU even further towards OC and away from the pew pew gun. I'm assuming the attacker already has an advantage, choosing when to engage, ensuring they do so with unit superiority, potentially even creating a diversion elsewhere, and having the opportunity to optimize the concave, set factory rally points in advance, as well as ordering faraway units to converge on the upcoming fight.

Another question I had is if pro players do micro to avoid unit clumping in an army + acu battle, and if that feels rewarding or frustrating. Such micro might become more important given the changes you propose, but with the clunkiness of pathfinding and UI lag, it it fun to do?

@phong said in Smol ACU Adjustment:

Anyone remember the Snipe option on most units and how it was ultimately removed because positioning became insanely important? Nerfing Auto-OC might introduce the same problem (admittedly to a lesser degree the higher your skill), the player caught unaware by a push will be dealing much lower damage until they turn their attention to the fight. If the opponent gets 2 extra OCs in, doesn't that have the potential of turning into "oh you looked away from your com for a few seconds, now you're dead" ? More so if you intend to skew the damage dealt by the ACU even further towards OC and away from the pew pew gun. I'm assuming the attacker already has an advantage, choosing when to engage, ensuring they do so with unit superiority, potentially even creating a diversion elsewhere, and having the opportunity to optimize the concave, set factory rally points in advance, as well as ordering faraway units to converge on the upcoming fight.

Then pull your ACU back and play safer if you can’t either macro well and maintain attention or take the macro hit that comes with using an ACU as an army.

The fact auto-OC lets u have the cake and eat it is a problem and I would love a meta that involves more passive ACU usage.

This is the whole reason it would become a further skill depth mechanic as it forces better players to actually have to deal with multiple concerns instead of having an 85% efficiency response they can occasionally zoom into to make 100% when they’re certain there are no problems elsewhere.

@phong said in Smol ACU Adjustment:

Another question I had is if pro players do micro to avoid unit clumping in an army + acu battle, and if that feels rewarding or frustrating. Such micro might become more important given the changes you propose, but with the clunkiness of pathfinding and UI lag, it it fun to do?

I do it often when going for ACU kills. I also intentionally pull back as many units as I can to avoid the damage from com bombs. For battles I typically avoid the issue by using mobile shields to absorb OC.

@ftxcommando that's how people dealt with shift-g and snipe mode in theory right? Just play less risky with acu.

Auto-overcharge is a nice quality of life feature that manages to both allow simplification of the game for newer players, and also add more complexity/depth since it adds extra decision making re whether to use auto or manual overcharge.

It's clearly weaker outside specific scenarios where you want to overcharge while moving (e.g. to chase down an enemy ACU or avoid being chased down), since against T1 units it can waste the OC against a half-health T1 unit (instead of getting a clump of them via a manual overcharge), and later in the game you cant overcharge as much with it as with manual overcharge.

It was a nice crutch during my earlier sub-1k days, but I quickly moved to using manual OC most of the time, with auto-overcharge now used very rarely (outside the specific scenarios noted above) where I need the apm for something important, I can afford to waste energy on poor overcharge shots, and my ACU isnt in imminent danger.

It sounds like the complaint is more about the power of overcharge against T2 units, but that's an issue with overcharge itself as a mechanic, and if anything auto-overcharge makes the problem slightly less severe since if a player relies on it they're more likely to waste an overcharge on a T1 tank when T2 units are nearby.

Meanwhile nerfing gun damage encourages passive ACU gameplay (why take the risk of losing the game for such a small benefit vs the current scenario where taking risks with your ACU gets rewarded), makes it far better to go for T2 upgrade over gun, and makes overcharge even more powerful than it currently is (since it will account for a far greater proportion of the ACUs damage output).