@maudlin27 thanks very much.
I thought it might be mod compatibility but I was thinking Auto Reclaim. I look forward to seeing what the next release can do.
@maudlin27 thanks very much.
I thought it might be mod compatibility but I was thinking Auto Reclaim. I look forward to seeing what the next release can do.
@maudlin27 - here are the replays:
From memory, we lost the first two games but it was in the second game that one of the commanders died early because it didn't move away from the torpedoes; the remaining team still beat us convincingly by teching up and hitting us with experimentals. I think we won in the third game mainly through long range naval.
For context, we haven't been playing too long but we're easily beating the standard AIs and Sorian etc; we don't really play against other humans much yet so we're not exactly great players but it's offered us more challenge than Sorian or LOUD which are the other AIs we've played against so far.
@tyne141 Thanks, the replays highlighted a number of flaws/tweaks to make so hopefully it can give a bit more of a challenge in the next release.
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v77
@maudlin27 - awesome, it's great to be playing against an AI as it is evolving so we know that we can't just learn how it behaves once and remember how to beat it.
Out of interest, is the intention to definitely add navy/sea eventually if there is time to do it well? Or is it potentially easier to make an AI difficult to beat if it concentrates its resources on land and air? I notice that some of the AIs that do build navy don't defend them too well so it is often easy to knock out naval factories in which case it is a massive waste of mass for the AI but I assume that an AI that can strategically use certain naval units could be quite tough to beat.
@tyne141 I've still not decided whether to get navy, and if so to what extent to do it - as you mention it's very easy to waste a lot of mass on navy if it's not implemented well, and it's further compounded by me not really knowing how to play navy well as a player.
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v77
V40 Update – Deceiver and naval defence
Acknowledgements
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v77
@maudlin27 said in AI Development Guide and M27AI v40 Devlog:
Various tweaks aimed at improving M27’s response to a nearby naval threat slightly
Thanks for the acknowledgement; here's a couple more replays if you want:
It was 2 games of 2 humans VS 2 M27s on Eye of the Storm. We lost the first one but won the second. There didn't seem to be any major bugs but in the second match, the bottom right AI sent its commander diagonally across the whole map underwater which meant that it was completely vulnerable to torpedoes. So it almost got taken out by a lone T1 submarine. We lost the first match in a big part due to the M27 firebases being quite effective and me not defending against the T2 artillery quickly enough; however, in the second match it didn't really seem to build the firebases as effectively at the top or bottom so we just skirmished across gradually.
Played a heavily modded game (primarily fast build, increased storage, increased nuke defence build rate, defence expanded). 1x AIX vs 1x human.
@maudlin27 well done... took me over 2 hours (Uveso with the same settings would be sub 1hr typically).
Got forced to turtle up to the middle a bit the AI was very overwhelming with a constant stream of high tier units controlling the center.
I'm betting it would have had enough resources to build more experimentals however it didnt. Might have been able to win if it did. One area AIs can typically offer more challenge to human players (if resources permit) is by building experimentals as that requires extensive micro management as a human.
It never tried for a nuke win. T4 Arty was disabled in this match so there was no Arty win possible.
I won via area supression followed by brute force nuke win.
Don't park within range of guns
In the above screenshot that was a fleet of T1 and T3 engineers primarily. Seems kind of useless?
Tried to invade with that engineer army multiple times. Cannon fodder strategy?
Overall - good game. Played well. Slowest point with large armies clashing -2, typically +2.
Also flying engineer strategy:
Might have been a good strategy for that engineer army.
@tyne141 Thanks for the replays, looking into further there's a bug with my logic on 'chokepoint' games (such as 2v2 eye of the storm) - will be fixed in v41 (I'm just working through a few adjustments before I release).
@splitice I'll have a look after the current release to see if there are any easy adjustments to help fix, but some of my logic's range is hardcoded which may cause issues if the mod is introducing very long range units. I'll double-check how it handles things when T4 arti is disabled though, as it's quite possible it is trying to build it, and when it fails due to the unit restriction it stops building any experimental, leading to poor use of resources. I'm just going through pre-release checks on my current release so it won't be until v42 for any changes re this though.
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v77
@maudlin27 Iterate the blueprints on start for unit ranges perhaps? Thats how unit stats are normally changed so it makes sense to do the same on first tick.
It didnt build zero experimentals (I saw a few galactic colossuses before taking the center) but they were limited. Towards the end of the game I would have expected to see waves of them.
v41 Update - Hives and Shield Disruptor
Acknowledgements:
Benchmarking
As it's roughly 1 year since I first started working on M27, I thought I'd benchmark how well it was performing against several of the other AI (DilliDalli and RNG, as they're the 2 AI that during testing are most likely to beat M27), in part as one of my long term goals had been to create an AI capable of beating all other AI on the <700 rank map pool a majority of the time.
While M27 just managed to reach this goal (after numerous small tweaks to its early-game logic), it was very close on several maps so this will be highly dependent on the map pool chosen. The devlog has more details on the results, but in summary (with 4 faction mirror matchups being played against each AI, and then another 4 in the case of a tie in results):
Maps with 100% win rate:
Maps with a clear >50% win rate:
Close fought maps:
In terms of the other map pool maps, Serenity Desert Small – FAF version currently has a bug that prevents RNG and DilliDalli working on it so the results aren't included
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v77
Great to see so many frequent updates.
If you want some more replays, here are a few more:
@tyne141 Thanks, I’ll have a look ahead of the next release. I’m in the middle of tweaking M27’s tmd logic to handle massed tml and billy nukes so the replays highlighting tml issues are well timed!
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v77
So after trying to play with M27AI on DualGap Scale Adaptive around 2 min in the entire game freezes and I have to force kill it. This is the log I got from it game_17452319.log
@igneustempus Thanks, it looks like M27 will hard-crash on any maps that have mexes outside the playable area, I'll have it fixed for the next version
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
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v42 Update
This update was almost entirely about fixing issues highlighted by replays people have sent me:
Acknowledgements
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v77
Great work! I think it can play at around 700 rating in 1v1. AI uses bombers quite well, its pain in ass to deal with them even with air control. All in all pretty solid.
I played some games with it, search "M27 testing" if you want to see them. What i noticed is: strange unit movement and questionable unit composition. For example it will build too many t1 maa while being at disadvantage. It will not contest huge concentations of reclaim (cadmium gree for example). It's pd logic is kinda bad too. Like it will build pds in base where it's not doing anything useful (regor highlands). Also its plateu logic working strange (on regor highlands it never dropped three mex expansions with civs but dropped 1 mex hills).
I think it ecoes too much maybe? On some maps it's ok but on some it snowballs quite bad.
Skill issue
@tomma Thanks for the feedback and for labeling the replays, I'll have a look to see what adjustments can be made
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
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Various mostly unrelated changes based on replays provided:
Acknowledgements
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v77