AI Wave Survival Mod Information

more thoughts!! this is about the AI behaviour and unit composition, especially for navy

I'm not fan of the way the navy units horde. espcially in t3 onwards, the battleships, aircraft carriers etc will blindly suicide into my defenses. it's not especially satisfying. i would like the long ranged naval units to hold back in the same way that t3 mobile artillery do.

also the composition of naval units spawned is not very satisfying. i see t3 nuclear subs, aircraft carriers. these units are useless! can you please get these to spawn a lot less?

also similar, but less egregious, i'd like a change in the behaviour of the experimentals and bosses. i would like the long range ones to hold back more just within firing range.

i was thinking sometimes the passageways are narrow and exps/bosses/dooms take up a lot of space. maybe make it so the long range ones hold back, until there are more behind them wanting to move in, so they move in closer to make space

with the exps/bosses/dooms, when they get in your bases, they're not as devastating as they could be. they lack the cunning and effectiveness that a human would have. they just kind of stand there and take fire. i'd like them to be a lot more devastating in what they attack.

@monkey_gamer

• The nuke launchers spawn in, launch, and self-destruct. They aren't meant to be destroyable.
• Support Bases: I was actually considering improving their defenses! Actually, I was going to cap the max number of buildings they spawn in.
• Rifts: I was planning to add some more settings for the rifts.
• 2nd Spawn Settings: Yeah, they are a hassle, but allow for highly customized settings. It is a great way to set a secondary target that will weaken waves or open up avenues of attack for teams that successfully destroy. That is the idea, anyways. The customization also helps with hosting on oddly shaped maps or to limit waves from certain directions.
• Wave Tech Progression: I make the same mistake, and will probably change this around.
• ACU Hunters: I added those as a counter to high level players, as they go after players with lots of SACUs. Their spawn time can be delayed and their numbers reduced. I have nerfed them several times, so will consider lowering their health. But then I would be tempted to add stun to their death explosions! (That was in the original idea, but would be a nightmare for front players.)
• Thematic Suggestions: I've always left that up to the host to decide. I am currently looking into a Hybrid Hold To Win endgame option, where once the HQ takes a certain % of damage, difficulty will ramp up, but a time will starts that teams need to survive till to win.
• T3 Navy: Yeah, that stage was kinda boring. I've added T2 Navy into later Navy stages. Been meaning to do so, as there are some useful T2 navy ships. Also adjusted the behavior of Navy. An increased number of Navy ships will choose stand-off range against targets. The aircraft carriers are useful for AA and TMD, but their ability to not do direct fire is a limitation. I changed the aircraft carriers and nuclear subs to have weak direct attack weapons.

v268:

Navy:
-Some changes to late game Navy. Aircraft Carriers have all been given weak Direct Fire weapons so that they offer some threat to ships and structures, and have shrunk by 75% in size (their size can cause log jams). Nuclear subs all have long range torpedoes to attack naval vessels. A larger percentage of Naval vessels will choose a stand-off range to attack. And T2 Navy will continue to spawn, even in late game. These changes should help to make late game naval battles more interesting.

Dooms:
-On death, the storms left by Dooms will act as Rifts and spawn in T3 units that will disperse and attack players. Electron Storms that spawn randomly around the map have an increased chance of spawning in player's bases.

Wave Tech Progression Option:
-Reorganized so that slowing the tech progression is listed first.

Satellites/CZARS:
-Upped their damaged to 40% normal versus Dooms, Support Bases, and HQs. Previously it was 33%.

Over-Charge:
-Increased to 3x damage vs Dooms. Can do significant damage with enough energy storage.

Hello Rama,

could it be, that UEF Engi Station-Drones count as high level Air units, that spawn extra ASFs?

if someone builds UEF Engi Station they get usually 50-100 ASF per Wave which doesnt makes sense. Only if they count like a T4 Unit and spawn 9 ASF per Engi Station. Or your Settings set a fixes %-Spawn of ASF if any Air units exists. Does it lower Gunships and Bomber then?

Hello Rama,

i just had a game where we spammed about 40 EMP Launcher and destroyed 2nd HQ and a few support bases easily.

it cost 4k mass per launcher but how much per missile?

15k dmg per missile on buildings could be a bit overpowered if the mass cost is low.

1 EMP Missile = 15k Dmg (Dmg per Mass = ? / Build time?)
1 Nuke = 35k (cost about 15k = 2,33 Dmg per Mass and 5 or 6 min build time = 58,33 DPS on buildings)

Additionaly i think the range is too high. maybe reduce it to t3 arty range?

@slykar

About the drone stations, I'll have to check the script. The ASF response should only be against T3/T4 air units. The ASF response script is separate from the regular Air script, and does not reduce the amount of other air spawned.

The EMP launchers were a unit I introduced in a much earlier version, and no one ever really used, so I never bothered to balance. I am aware of their OP nature. The missiles cost the same as regular Tacs, as I never edited their costs. I was considering removing, as the Sera T4 Tacs are their balanced replacement, or making them a special weapon only unlocked after achieving a certain goal.

Small update:

• Support Base minimum number reduced to 2.
• Destroying support bases before build time is over only triggers negative random events, and may cause waves to start early.
• Some of UEF Atlantis' weapons can fire on surface targets.
• If navy spawn set to zero, but players build navy, counter naval units may spawn.
• EMP Tacs balanced. Reduced damage against HQ's and Support Bases.

Hello Rama,

thank you for making our lives difficult. I really appreciate it!

What do you think about submitting your mod to the FAF News Feed or asking a FAF Youtuber for a little tutorial?

How about changing the Rift Orb to the Sera Rift-Gate from the campain?

@slykar it did get a promotion when it was first released if I'm not mistaken but feel free to ask again for it to be again

Hello Rama,

i hosted a few games 10.02.2024 and a few ppl had desync in the game even before waves spawned. i think something is broken or does a preset-setting conflicts with mod updates? (one of the game had 1800r and 1900r player)

@adastranoob
Mhh if it got one already idk if it should be there again.
i wanted to submit it but i dont use discord.

I can only recommend to highlight it more because i have like a 50 ppl playerbase if i host my map with the mod and even get pm-ed to host or write back as soon as i host again. And my lobbies are usually full within 5 min.

its just too much hassle for most ppl to go throw the mod settings but it is highly enjoyable for 80% that visit my games and they keep coming back after 50 runs.

@slykar

Uploaded v270. Please let me know if that corrects the desync issue that was present in v269.

v270 tested with 4 player. no problems

v272

-Added an optional Sub Spam retaliation script. Will spawn Sub Hunters in response to sub spam.

• Cybran T4 Daze Cannon buffed and targeting issues fixed.
• Cybran T3 Heavy Cruiser made a little smaller and faster, to help with potential log jams on land.
• Aircraft Carriers given depth charges, to provide some anti-sub support, and made 10% smaller to help with navy units clogging. They also have pitifully weak direct fire weapons.

V276

Doom Waves:

• Fixed a few bugs, Final Doom Wave won't deploy early any longer, among others.
• Dooms now damage HQ health immediately instead of after defeating entire wave. This should make them more satisfying to play against and help defeat the HQ quicker. Total damage per wave is divided between Dooms.
• 10% chance for random storms every time a Doom is defeated.

Aircraft Carriers:

• Now spawn their own attack craft. Default is 1 to 4 aircraft per carrier. This can be adjusted or disabled in settings.
• Will spawn T3 Torp bombers in increasing numbers to combat T3/T4 sub spam.
• Improved depth charges.

Navy:

• Attack scripts changed to increase naval focus on ships.
• Some units given hardened torpedos. These take 2 hits to be destroyed by anti torpedo countermeasures.
• T4 Abyss anti torpedo defense can destroy hardened torpedos in one hit.

Other Changes:

• T3PD for Aeon, Cybran, and Sera all received small buffs.
• T4AA now has a reload bar so players know it is working.
• Engineer stations will no longer spawn for HQ.
• Various messages have been added to chat to help keep players informed.

Hello Rama,

could you add SMD on carrier or t3 cruisers / destroyers, you added? We have trouble to build smd before the next nuke wave, if we lose them. And we play fart islands which has a few small islands without space to get smd at all.

additionaly i think the support base spawn is bugged. since v275 i had only 1 support base but 10 player and 1+player/2 on. since v278 i had 2 bases.

lastly i had the bug where my lobby freezes after i have observers and start the game. It is either no friendly fire or your -50% air crash dmg mod which doesnt work well with my other mods.

AI WAVE
10% Particle
All Fraction Q-G
1,5 Build Range
2x Res from developer

@slykar

I've considered adding a mobile SMD unit, so that back players can build them to support forward players. The idea is a slow moving, hover unit with a lower max SMD capacity and range. Guess I will have to add it. In the meantime, there are also some mobile SMD mods in the mod vault, if I recall.

I haven't seen the support base bug in any replays I've checked, except the one of you on Fart Island map. You only get 2 support bases, regardless of the multiplier you set? Support bases can spawn in regions of maps that are blacked off, making them unreachable to players.

I've no idea what causes the lobby observer bug. I have found what appears to be a possible fix but I haven't been hosting much, so only tested once. Here is the forum post on the fix:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/7292/observers-crashing-game-possible-fix

Little Update.

with 2x support bases, i saw more. additonaly.

AI WAVE
10% Particle
All Fraction Q-G
1,5 Build Range
2x Res from developer

• no friendly Fire (3.0) by UNKOWN = desync before buildtime was over. im not going to use that mod again.
  But it worked with 2 observers in.

i will try with smd and air -50% mod now. one at a time.

Update2

i had 5 mods on.

AI WAVE
10% Particle
All Fraction Q-G
1,5 Build Range
2x Res from developer

and tried to activate -50% air dmg and -50% anti nuke cost but some ppl didnt have it. So it showed - "not on"

i started with 2 observers and the game crashed.

I rehosted and all 7 mods were marked as on. so maybe the try to activate these mods turned them on in my ini file while i was hosting and lead to the crash?

with 2x support bases, i had about 7 or 8 on 40x40 map and spotted a rift nuke coming from the map outside.

1 was in the south and one orb was in the west. (Dark side of the map)

@slykar

Did you try the observer fix I mentioned? Try to kick observers before launch. If you kick an observer and they aren't removed from the lobby, that means host will crash on launch. Turning on "Allow Observers" appears to allow game to launch without host crashing, if there is a stuck observer in lobby.

Sounds like support based are spawning in the blacked out regions of the map. You can prevent that from happening by setting Support Bases to only spawn Center E to W.