M28AI Devlog (v157)

maudlin27

v155 Update
Another mini update:

Fixed a typo relating to a niche scenario where considering whether to get a novax to help with enemy naval threats
Reworked ASF support logic so they should try and stay even closer to a friendly experimental air unit than before
Fixed a bug with working out if a table is empty (that I presume has been around in both M28 and M27 for 3-4 years!)
Asfs should be more likely to engage enemies attacking restorers and czars (by including the restorer/czar anti-air capabilities when deciding whether the fight can be won)
Fixed an issue with M28's chat messages not working in LOUD (introduced in v152)

Acknowledgements

Radde - several more replays
C04spoon - Mentioning that M28's chat messages had stopped working in LOUD

MrPhalanx

Hey Maudlin! I also found out, that the chat messages do not work with the Steam Version as well now, also a small bug, when you select MULTIPLE repair drones (UEF) (For ex. at the Kennel), the UI in the left is broken (only a blank square is visible), if you select a SINGLE drone, then everything works fine.

maudlin27

@MrPhalanx Just to check, is the chat bug something that happens in the latest version v155 (as there was a bug with this in a previous version)

maudlin27

v156 Update
14 changes, including:

A few different build orders and early game approaches added to try and make M28 a bit more unpredictable (for now whether it rushes a bomber; gets no bomber at all; gets LABs or no LABs, although long term I'm hoping to add some further variation)
Adjusted how short range units support longer ranged units where they're having their retreat cut off
A team with a mix of different factions should prioritise ahwassas if they decide to build an air experimental

Acknowledgements

Jorne - 1v1 vs M28 Easy
Radde - Lots of teamgame replays vs M28

art-wiedzmin

FA Mission 6 (Overlord) with Combined human-AI armies. https://pastebin.com/yAmjETHf

art-wiedzmin

Okay It works fine if comment out these lines in M28Overseer.lua.

    elseif not(bApplyM28AI) and oBrain.M28AI then
        --oBrain.M28AI = false
        --oBrain.M28Team = nil
        --M28Team.CreateNewTeam(oBrain)
        if bDebugMessages == true then LOG(sFunctionRef..': No longer applying M28AI to brain '..oBrain.Nickname..'; assigned it to the team '..(oBrain.M28Team or 'nil')) end
    end

(2112 - 2114 lines in version 157 from git)

log with enabled debug: https://pastebin.com/yKHa4hbH
log with enabled debug (after comment out): https://pastebin.com/nNqUA4ME

I don't quite understand the logic structure itself, but it seems to be designed for an individual AI player, and breaks down with a combined AI-Human mode (player moves to the newly created team number 5 after Fletcher's betrayal).

goblinsly2

I have a question. Is there any way to make your M28 AI teammate give you a unit ? I would like his engineer/sacu or any unit/building/exp that can make an engineer/sacu. tnx

maudlin27

@goblinsly2 Not currently, no

kagurazakanana

Subject: Issue Report and Feedback on Large Naval Maps with Concentrated Resources

Dear Mod Author,

I am writing to report some issues and provide feedback based on my experience playing on large naval maps (greater than 20km) with concentrated resources.

On these maps, I've found that bomber snipes and precise SCU teleport attacks are highly effective strategies. I believe exploiting the AI's tendency to multitask allows for consistent SCU teleport raids or SCU + TML teleport attacks (targeting structures like SMDs or ACUs). The ability to quickly retreat and re-engage makes this a low-cost and effective way to target vulnerable points in the base. Teleporting directly into the base center, bypassing PD and heavy defenses, is often more effective than using satellites.

Furthermore, in the late game, with a larger number of engineers, it's possible to conduct ASF sweeps of the player's base (even if they are lost, they are quickly replaced) followed by bomber snipes, specifically targeting the player's ACU and SMDs.

Here is more specific feedback based on a 40x20 naval map with concentrated resources:

M28aix's ASF manufacturing is strong, but its air superiority is weak. Its ground strike/bomber units fail to closely coordinate with its ASF escorts, resulting in the ground strike/bomber units lacking adequate protection.
After achieving air superiority in an engagement, M28 failed to quickly capitalize by deploying its ground strike/bomber units to eliminate key enemy units.
M28's air units, such as ground strike aircraft, appear overly cautious. They often patrol in the middle of the map instead of actively engaging in targeted strikes.
A recurring issue persists: M28 built a significant number of T4 air units (15 in this instance), but M28aix repeatedly pulled them back and forth, hesitant to attack the player's main base. Even as M28 lost the game, its T4 air force remained unused.
Large-scale naval battles felt too sparse. M28 invested more heavily in naval units than the player, but its unit composition was problematic. For example, it built insufficient numbers of battleships (BBs) and submarines. It constructed a large number of destroyers (DDs) which were destroyed by the player's concentrated BB fire before they could reach effective range. Additionally, a large portion of M28's navy patrolled in the middle of the map. M28 did not seem to intend to concentrate its naval forces for a decisive attack on enemy fleets, important shipyards, or land targets. I suspect the AI "A-moved" a target, but the varying speeds of the units prevented them from focusing fire effectively. Consider having the AI initially group its fleet near the player's base before initiating a coordinated rush.
The AI remains vulnerable to ACU and bomber assassination tactics. Even with full map vision, the AI's ASF did not intercept bombers. This made assassinations very easy. We assassinated four of M28's largely undefended ACUs using two Mavors.
M28aix built Diamond defenses within several shield generators, but it lacked any defense against SCU teleports. We teleported an SCU next to one of M28's Diamonds. The Diamond was instantly destroyed by friendly fire from battleships and missile ships, while my SCU safely returned to base.
The previously mentioned AI overwhelm issue has not been resolved. In several matches, after the AI's structures were destroyed, newly constructed buildings still appeared to have the base production rate, and the bonus values applied to existing structures were also incorrect.

Thank you for your time and dedication to the mod. I hope this feedback is helpful in improving the AI's performance on these types of maps.

maudlin27

Thanks for the feedback. I'd need a replay to investigate most of the poitns further, but many of them are working as intended/due to limitations in how the AI is structured:

ASFs should stay relatively close to gunships and/or experimental bombers, but on a large map with multiple such units I could see them getting out of position
Gunships should factor in enemy ground AA threat not just if it has air superiority, so will depend on the circumstances
They should strike locations without any nearby anti-air units if they have air control, otherwise they should only engage if confident of winning
I expect they're running from enemy AA (significant ground or air) - assuming we're talking about 15 czars/soulrippers then I presume there were hundreds of asfs and/or 40+ SAMs levels of anti-air
It should build a mix of units (frigates, destroyers, battleships) and engage with the shorter ranged units when it thinks it can win, so I'd need a replay if it is just suiciding destroyers into battleships (assuming we're not talking about it trying to defend an attack on its naval base)
Replay would be needed as it should intercept strat snipe attempts; however it's only really capable of surviving against 1 mavor, not 2 (and I cant see that changing given FAF balance)
I'd need a replay to understand this, as I would've expected an SACU teleport to be a 1-way trip
Replay with time stamp and building where this happens would help with investigating

maudlin27

@art-wiedzmin Thanks, this will be fixed in the next release

maudlin27

v157 Update
11 Changes, including:

New fatboy TML snipe logic
Naval MAA units should run from nearby enemy land units
More generally made it more likely that nearby enemy units in an adjacent zone are taken into account when deciding if a unit needs to run (to hopefully reduce instances of naval units moving into enemy range and dying)
Asfs should hopefully try and avoid enemy nukes
Fixed a bug with FA Mission 6 if shared armies mode was used

Acknowledgements

art-wiedzmin - highlighting shared armies bug in campaign
Radde - Various replays
Wes Maggs - Replay where M28 rallied its asfs on an island even as a nuke missile could be seen about to hit it