M28AI Devlog (v158)
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Hey Maudlin,
are there any other differences between the M28 and M28easy other than the "dodge micro" or is the general micro better on M28?
Do you have any experience on what maps the M28 is the most agressive? On the more normal maps, the M28 often stop attacks after T1 and then it starts again with T4.
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It should use T1-T2 and to a lesser extent T3 on most maps, particularly if 1v1, so I'm guessing it's your particular playstyle that leads it to doing that but without a replay I couldn't tell. E.g. I'd expect if you pick any 5km or 10km (and probably also 20km) map in the current mappool it should be getting T2 land.
M28Easy disables various other micro not just dodge micro (which can now be done separately via game settings as well). For example, air units shouldn't use hover-attacks; units shouldn't kite; it doesn't handle power and mass stalls as well (re pausing and unpausing units), engineers dont reclaim hostile units near them, etc.
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v122 Update
New hybrid AI option - you can now have M28AI take over control of any or your units (temporarily or permanently). To enable, set the "M28AI: Combined human-AI armies?" option in the lobby game options to "Yes", and then click on the M28AI icon on any selected units you wish to enable the logic:
If you encounter any issues (or if you use it and it works as expected) please let me know as I've only done limited testing of the feature.
[Edit: I’m aware of issues with this feature not working properly which I’ll be looking into shortly]
13 other changes made, including:
- Adjustments to experimental selection, in particular for the first few to make it more likely the cheapest experimental gets built
- 1 LOUD specific change relating to units on attack-move that in LOUD end up moving far inside their normal range (so M28AI should now manually attack units)
- M28Easy should consider moving units towards the enemy if they have t1 arti (instead of attack-moving)
- ACUs should go back to the initial build order if all factories end up being destroyed (previously they'd just rebuild a land and air fac and then go back to standing in base)
- Optimisation of logic for tracking mobile units with long ranged missile attacks (e.g. nuke subs) so it takes less than 10% as long to run with large unit counts
Acknowledgements:
- Nomander – suggestions for getting AI button to appear on selected units
- Azraeel – various LOUD replays (although I only managed to get through 1 for the changes in this update, but I’m hoping to work through the others in later updates)
- Emerald – replay where M28 suffered performance issues with lots of nuke subs
- Penny – posting a couple of replays against M28Easy
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v123 and v124 Hotfixes
Fixed a couple of issues with the shared human-AI army feature/AI assistant not working on certain maps, along with the following smaller changes:
- Fixed a typo with the label of the shared armies option in LOUD
- Fixed a rare issue if units died a fraction of a second before logic for the zone they were in was about to run
- Naval facs should be more likely to build subs if the enemy has a limited anti-naval threat relative to their anti-surface threat
- LOUD naval facs should be more likely to upgrade than before (while more generally they should upgrade sooner if faced with torpedo launchers)
Acknowledgements
- Fearghal, Tematus and chucups - replays with issues involving the shared armies (and in the case of Tematus noticing an incorrect 'mouse-over' description in LOUD for the game setting).
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v125 Update
New MOBA mode! Ever wonder what FAF would be like reimagined as a MOBA? No? Well you can still get an idea - set M28AI to MOBA mode (in the shared armies game option), and you can take control of your ACU while M28AI handles all other units.- 7 improvements and fixes to the shared AI armies, including a MOBA mode (M28 gives orders to every unit except the ACU), and the ability for units to inherit their M28AI control setting from their 'parent'/constructing unit. For example, build a land factory at an expansion point, toggle it to be controlled by M28AI, and with this setting M28AI will also take control of any units built from that factory (and any units they build). Essentially allowing you to hand off control of expansion points to the AI while you focus on something else. Also fixed a bug that could sometimes crash the game in LOUD.
- Skirmisher units should no longer try and kite enemy land scouts
- Water zones should track enemy T2 arti firebases, and be a bit less likely to request lots of engineers or engage with enemy forces within range of said firebase
- Added 'netting off' logic for engineer allocation - if one land or water zone decides to send an engineer to another zone, and that engineer already has engineers travelling to the first zone, then no engineers should go to either zone. While this doesn't eliminate the issue of large groups of engineers moving from one side of a pond to another (to assist the naval factory) it does at least reduce the frequency/severity of it.
Acknowldgements
- Fearghal - Replay with shared armies where M28 built in it's/Fearghal's base
- Azraeel - Replay on a water map
- Tematus - noting a scenario where LOUD would crash with M28 shared armies enabled
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v126 Update
Smaller update that improves M28's game-ender template's defences, along with 7 other changes- Game-ender templates should now build SAMs pre-emptively, and also build PD and T2 arti if faced with a ground attack
- New spirit attack mode (partly to experiment to see if it's any good) - spirits should be used as an attacking force initially, making use of their long range and good intel to gradually lower the health of enemy units
- MAA should be more cautious than before of enemy tanks when there aren't many friendly units to protect them
- Fixed an issue with deciding what experimental to build initially (where no experimental might be chosen)
- 1 minor LOUD specific change relating to the experimental sniper bot categorisation so it gets used similarly to a t3 sniperbot
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@maudlin27 The AI Logic button is messing with the Nomads somehow, though I'm not sure it's a priority. It makes all of the commander ability buttons appear, but none of them work anymore, even if you have the upgrade.
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Apologies if I'm necro posting, but I just yesterday discovered hybrid ai mode where I can finally, after decades of wanting it since TA/dune 2, unleash my units under AI control. I wish I had money so I could donate somewhere. This has utterly transformed the game for me and I could not be more pleased. Thank you so much. Every game needs this kind of option.
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@tankenabard said in M28AI Devlog (v126):
@maudlin27 The AI Logic button is messing with the Nomads somehow, though I'm not sure it's a priority. It makes all of the commander ability buttons appear, but none of them work anymore, even if you have the upgrade.
Thanks for reporting, it'll be fixed in the next update
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v127 Update
29 smaller changes and fixes, including:- Fixing bugs relating to M28's shared armies feature that could cause issues with certain units that have drones (e.g. upgraded kennel, and Nomads ACUs) in LOUD, steam and nomads
- Increased aggression for T1 arti drops to make them more likely
- Fixed a bug with the ACU that would cause it to move really slowly when trying to reclaim
- Adjustments to naval logic to make battleships less likely to keep retreating if they aren't firing at the enemy, and submarines less likely to be built if the enemy has torpedo bombers.
- 12 LOUD specific changes, including M28 focusing more on units over experimentals, and adding workarounds for some LOUD mechanics and issues (such as where air units cant attack grounded aircraft, or the ACU can end up stuck unable to fire)
Acknowledgements
- TankenAbard – highlighting that Nomads ACU abilities were broken with M28 (due to shared armies)
- Azraeel – Various replays and other suggestions
- C04spoon – several replays
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I've been playing as the AI vs itself a lot, (so much fun for me, ai on, and ai status inherit on) and I've noticed that the ai when it's on my side controlling my army it's pretty terrible at reclaim and economy. Like it should imo with t1 builders always try to build mexes and reclaim anytime something is in range if there's storage space for it. Is this intentional? Also it seems to takes forever to upgrade mexes. I watch a lot of gyle recasts when I'm not playing the ai vs itself with me as a backseat driver, for context. P.S. I'm doing this on tournament 10km generated maps also fwiw, 1v1.
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@innomen I’d expect it to build mexes and get reclaim if it has control of all engineers in the area (assuming it is low on mass and there aren’t nearby enemy units).
Mex upgrades are generally not sought after/prioritised in 1v1 as on 10km maps prioritising t1 tank spam is usually better.
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@maudlin27 So it is intentional, oky, seems like I always die with a tapped mass bar. Oh well. My impression is very different. I'd focus econ and air control, since that seems to win replays. but I'm clearly not the expert XD Thanks again for making this
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@maudlin27 FWIW neroxis_map_generator_1.12.3_jr5vbqk53twfc_aiiaeaq_aaaaaadg6msjk
(unexplored 20x20) 1v1 me vs ai really didn't like the map. Is this a known thing? perhaps because unexplored?
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In what way did it not like the map, and do you have a replay id?
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v128 Update
16 changes and fixes, including:- Reducing the number of naval factories that get built
- Factored in mobile shields when assessing how strong an enemy naval force is
- Made the naval combat logic more detailed so it is more likely to take into account units that are relatively near it when deciding what to do
- 7 LOUD specific changes, including fixing an incompatibility resulting from the latest LOUD 7.10 release, and fixing an issue that meant M28's ACUs would be overly aggressive.
Acknowledgements
- Vortex - several LOUD replays, including one highlighting M28's ACU being too aggressive
- c04spoon - replay highlighting various torpedo bomber related issues
- GerJS - Noting that with particular game settings M28 would prevent one of the objectives loading on UEF M6
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@maudlin27 It took forever to do the first analysis and every few seconds it froze. no replay, it was unplayable, also ai games don't get recorded, that's why I linked the map name so you could reproduce it. Also, I think the crab is bugged, egg units don't inherit AI status.
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@innomen Looking into it this is an issue with how MapGen defines the playable area on such maps (in that it starts with no playble area, which then causes an issue for FAF's navigational mesh logic). Jip's kindly offered to look into it further.
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v129 Update
22 changes and fixes, including:
- Increased options for the AIx overwhelm modifier to allow smaller AIx modifier adjustments (+/- 0.05, 0.02 and 0.01)
- Increased cruiser production in certain scenarios to protect from torp bombers
- Fixed a bug where M28Easy would ground-fire subs
- 11 LOUD specific adjustments (including support for bombardment ships, not treating engineering ships like frigates, a bug that prevented M28 recognising when its naval units shots were being blocked by terrain, and some logic that in some cases may have caused desyncs)
Acknowledgements
- GerJS - Replay with M28Easy ground-firing subs
- Vortex - LOUD replay
- Innomen – Highlighting a bug with unexplored mapgen maps
- Zhanghm – noting an issue where in modded games only the megalith would be built by Cybrans in some cases despite unit prioritisation being turned off
- c04spoon – tips on what naval units work best in a bombardment type role
