M28AI Devlog (v224)
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v216 Update
11 changes, including:- Improved selection of transport drop locations when dropping on the same plateau, so the number of mexes in the target zone gets factored in.
- Fixed compatibility with the flying engineers mod
- Renamed 'M28: Enable helpful teammate logic?" to "M28: Helpful teammates?" (to deal with text overflow issues)
Acknowledgements
- Fearghal screenshot highlighting text overflow issue on the helpful teammates game option
v217 Update
18 changes, including:- Fixed some bugs with inties/asfs logic so they should no longer pursue enemy inties/asfs that are out of range (unless they think they can win the fight)
- Surface naval units should consider attacking the nearest enemy naval unit if it's outranged (even if the enemy has longer ranged units in the general area)
- Improvements and fixes to ACU logic when using splash upgrade or laser (so it's a bit less likely to build things or get reclaim)
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Hi, i am playing against M28 everyday and i have tons of fun. Just 2 things to report and a question.
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For some reason on Rush me green V3, players dont utilise torpedo bombers. I see they build them and if u walk with experimental on small patch of water on land, they attack. But on main water they dont. So i just rush megalith's in water.
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Same for Strats and Exp bomber - they dont attack megaliths under water. Im guessing it has to do with depth of water ? Bomb from ahwasa doesnt damage mega
Im playing with certain restrictions, mainly game enders. Latest replay is #24583934
Question: since i mostly play only against AI, does it make any difference to AI, UI and how game behaves between opening a new game in FAF client, or just click play localy from FAF starter page and make new skirmish game ?
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@goblinsly2 Thanks, unfortunately the replay doesnt work but I've been able to reproduce an issue with torpedo bombers not targeting naval units on that map so should be able to investigate.
For strats and exp bomber I expect the issue is the unit is too far underwater.
Playing offline should be similar to playing through FAF, the main differences being the replay wont get saved to FAF (so unless you rename your lastreplay it gets overwritten when you start a new game), and you need to create a game through FAF after any update to benefit from the changes in that update.
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v218 Update
5 changes, including:- Fixing a bug in QUIET where mobile SMD would be built instead of spearheads
- Units should be more likely to engage enemies near the frontline that they outrange.
- Improved ACU build order so it is less likely to build the 5th+ mexes at the start
v219 Update
15 changes, including:- Various improvements to Aeon missile ship usage, including making them less likely to fire at units protected by cliffs
- Civilian buildings in water will now be considered for capture
- Fixed a bug where water zone locatiosn could be considered as land zones
- Fixed an issue where if the asf support location was too near the frontline (with the enemy having ground based AA near the frontline) they'd ignore all enemy units
Acknowledgements
- Relent0r - Replay involving Aeon missile ships
v220
Hotfix with 4 changes, including:- Fixed a major bug with torp bombers that meant most of the time they wouldn't attack
- Fixing a couple of ACU related errors where the ACU was in a different plateau to nearby units
- Fatboys should be more likely to attackmove in LOUD and QUIET
Acknowledgements
- goblinsly2 - Highlighting issues with M28 torp bombers
- Vortex - QUIET replay involving fatboy
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v221 Update
13 changes, including:- Island factories should build land scouts in teamgames and be less likely to pause
- Indirect fire units should try and attack if the nearest enemy is outranged and not protected by friendly enemy units.
- Adjusted t3 arti targeting to reduce the value of heavily shielded zones when assessing the best zones to do a detailed check on
- T3 facs should in some cases be ctrl-k'd for mass late-game
v222 Update
10 changes, including:- More PD builders
- ASFs should shadow friendly strat bombers even if the enemy has AA nearby
- Naval factories should be more likely to get engineers if they have higher tech than land/air
- Units should transfer on death (relevant for QUIET+LOUD)
Acknowledgements
- C04spoon – v218 QUIET replay
- Azraeel – v218 QUIET replay
- Vortex – 3 v220 QUIET replays
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v223 Update
8 changes mostly relating to improving M28's response to a comdrop attempt:- More inties should be built if an enemy T2 transport is detected
- Various adjustments to inties+asf micro when engaging enemy air targets
- Emergency PD's build location should be reassessed if the PD is going to be built in range of existing enemies and the engineer is sitll moving to the build location.
Acknowledgements
- Chucups replay where 4 M28 lost to a 2 player T2 comdrop
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It would be awesome if I could tell the AI to gift me an engineer.
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@NomenNominandum You can (try using a text marker to ask)
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v224 Update
15 changes, including:- M28 should place markers when it spots high value enemy units if it has a human teammate
- Engineers should be more likely to reclaim wrecks within a second of being in range of the wreck.
- Decreased bomber aggression early game and where M28 lacks intel
- T2 radar outside the base can be upgraded to omni on larger maps when M28 has very good eco
- 2 QUIET specific changes, including an infinite upgrade bug and fixing factory enhancements
Acknowledgements
- Relent0r - identifying triggers relating to a brain gaining visual of a unit that I was able to use to add in some taunts (although after working on it some more I decided to go with a custom approach for greater functionality)
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Firstly, I like the AI. For someone that likes to play vs AI rather than pvp, I appreciate the work you do.
It would be great to have a setting to turn down the strat bomber hover spam. Or the ability to scale the amount of APM to a more human-like amount. I get flooded with 50+ strat bombers, each hovering out of range, flicking bombs forward. No shields can protect you and AA cant kill them fast enough. By itself, it is a minor issue, but the AI being able to focus on that while doing micro on everything else on the battlefield can make it hard to deal with.
I'm also unsure of how balanced ASF vs AI ASF combat is. I've often outnumbered their ASF while having vehicle AA below, and my ASFs get decimated while the AI ASF are barely touched.
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The AI is cheating again.
Last game the M28 (easy) marked a nuke without seen it.
Same seems with other funktions but i cannot proof it. For example the first bomber. It seems he sees everything without having a scout.
It would be nice to have a funktion to stop M28 doing things that are not possible for humans. -
@Laso That's essentially how M28 (and many previous AI as well) performs. It has information it shouldn't, and does things with units that you would find it either impossible or incredibly difficult to do. It's not, and doesn't claim to be, a level playing field.
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@Swarm133 Thanks for the feedback; I can look at how feasible it would be to add further customisation into how it uses hover-micro as a game setting (e.g. the number of units it's able to hover-micro simultaneously); in the meantime you can play using M28Easy which should disable all hover-micro.
For ASF vs ASF combat I've seen it lose lots of air fights that have looked relatively close in separate replays, but there is a high degree of variability in asf matchups even with the same tactics being used by both the player and the AI, so it's certainly possible that you can have more asf and lose an air fight, although I'd expect with a significantly larger force you should overcome the variability/micro difference.
To help illustrate what I mean, in sandbox you could create 50 asf for two players, and have 1 group attack-move towards the 2nd group, and the 2nd group move and then press stop when near the 1st group; I'd expect the 2nd group to win the fight. M28Easy will disable the main micro M28 uses in asf vs asf fights, which I'd expect to make it weaker (although I've not actually tested to confirm!)
@Laso Please can you provide a replay - the only scenario I'dve thought M28 would have knowledge of a nuke it hasn't scouted is if that nuke has already launched its missile; M28 aims to approximate what a competent human player can infer by recognising certain units exist when they fire, to avoid scenarios where an unscouted unit can fire at M28 and it continues as though that unit doesnt exist (another example would be a monkeylord firing outside of visual range - a human player would see the big laser and know there's a monkeylord there). I'd need a replay to check or (if it's marking the nuke when it shouldn't) to fix the bug causing this).
As for the first bomber again I'd also need a replay to assess, but I can assure you it is very much limited by intel, and doesn't see everything despite not having a scout. For example, in the recent rainbow cup semi-finals you can see the dark blue early t1 bomber do a number of suboptimal plays due to its lack of intel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQI_jUrivfk&t=120s- Once it gets near the enemy T1 AA (bombers have a radar+visual range although you can't see this in the cast due to observer view) it decides to turn and try and seek a different target
- It then proceeds to go towards various empty mexes with no units, because it's trying to find enemy engineers to target (2m10 of the replay/2m32 of the video)
- It's not until 3m20 of the replay (3m47 of the video) that it approaches a location with enemy units, having wasted a long time trying to find some
