M28AI Devlog (v162)
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I have a question. Is there any way to make your M28 AI teammate give you a unit ? I would like his engineer/sacu or any unit/building/exp that can make an engineer/sacu. tnx
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@goblinsly2 Not currently, no
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Subject: Issue Report and Feedback on Large Naval Maps with Concentrated Resources
Dear Mod Author,
I am writing to report some issues and provide feedback based on my experience playing on large naval maps (greater than 20km) with concentrated resources.
On these maps, I've found that bomber snipes and precise SCU teleport attacks are highly effective strategies. I believe exploiting the AI's tendency to multitask allows for consistent SCU teleport raids or SCU + TML teleport attacks (targeting structures like SMDs or ACUs). The ability to quickly retreat and re-engage makes this a low-cost and effective way to target vulnerable points in the base. Teleporting directly into the base center, bypassing PD and heavy defenses, is often more effective than using satellites.
Furthermore, in the late game, with a larger number of engineers, it's possible to conduct ASF sweeps of the player's base (even if they are lost, they are quickly replaced) followed by bomber snipes, specifically targeting the player's ACU and SMDs.
Here is more specific feedback based on a 40x20 naval map with concentrated resources:
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M28aix's ASF manufacturing is strong, but its air superiority is weak. Its ground strike/bomber units fail to closely coordinate with its ASF escorts, resulting in the ground strike/bomber units lacking adequate protection.
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After achieving air superiority in an engagement, M28 failed to quickly capitalize by deploying its ground strike/bomber units to eliminate key enemy units.
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M28's air units, such as ground strike aircraft, appear overly cautious. They often patrol in the middle of the map instead of actively engaging in targeted strikes.
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A recurring issue persists: M28 built a significant number of T4 air units (15 in this instance), but M28aix repeatedly pulled them back and forth, hesitant to attack the player's main base. Even as M28 lost the game, its T4 air force remained unused.
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Large-scale naval battles felt too sparse. M28 invested more heavily in naval units than the player, but its unit composition was problematic. For example, it built insufficient numbers of battleships (BBs) and submarines. It constructed a large number of destroyers (DDs) which were destroyed by the player's concentrated BB fire before they could reach effective range. Additionally, a large portion of M28's navy patrolled in the middle of the map. M28 did not seem to intend to concentrate its naval forces for a decisive attack on enemy fleets, important shipyards, or land targets. I suspect the AI "A-moved" a target, but the varying speeds of the units prevented them from focusing fire effectively. Consider having the AI initially group its fleet near the player's base before initiating a coordinated rush.
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The AI remains vulnerable to ACU and bomber assassination tactics. Even with full map vision, the AI's ASF did not intercept bombers. This made assassinations very easy. We assassinated four of M28's largely undefended ACUs using two Mavors.
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M28aix built Diamond defenses within several shield generators, but it lacked any defense against SCU teleports. We teleported an SCU next to one of M28's Diamonds. The Diamond was instantly destroyed by friendly fire from battleships and missile ships, while my SCU safely returned to base.
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The previously mentioned AI overwhelm issue has not been resolved. In several matches, after the AI's structures were destroyed, newly constructed buildings still appeared to have the base production rate, and the bonus values applied to existing structures were also incorrect.
Thank you for your time and dedication to the mod. I hope this feedback is helpful in improving the AI's performance on these types of maps.
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Thanks for the feedback. I'd need a replay to investigate most of the poitns further, but many of them are working as intended/due to limitations in how the AI is structured:
- ASFs should stay relatively close to gunships and/or experimental bombers, but on a large map with multiple such units I could see them getting out of position
- Gunships should factor in enemy ground AA threat not just if it has air superiority, so will depend on the circumstances
- They should strike locations without any nearby anti-air units if they have air control, otherwise they should only engage if confident of winning
- I expect they're running from enemy AA (significant ground or air) - assuming we're talking about 15 czars/soulrippers then I presume there were hundreds of asfs and/or 40+ SAMs levels of anti-air
- It should build a mix of units (frigates, destroyers, battleships) and engage with the shorter ranged units when it thinks it can win, so I'd need a replay if it is just suiciding destroyers into battleships (assuming we're not talking about it trying to defend an attack on its naval base)
- Replay would be needed as it should intercept strat snipe attempts; however it's only really capable of surviving against 1 mavor, not 2 (and I cant see that changing given FAF balance)
- I'd need a replay to understand this, as I would've expected an SACU teleport to be a 1-way trip
- Replay with time stamp and building where this happens would help with investigating
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@art-wiedzmin Thanks, this will be fixed in the next release
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v157 Update
11 Changes, including:- New fatboy TML snipe logic
- Naval MAA units should run from nearby enemy land units
- More generally made it more likely that nearby enemy units in an adjacent zone are taken into account when deciding if a unit needs to run (to hopefully reduce instances of naval units moving into enemy range and dying)
- Asfs should hopefully try and avoid enemy nukes
- Fixed a bug with FA Mission 6 if shared armies mode was used
Acknowledgements
- art-wiedzmin - highlighting shared armies bug in campaign
- Radde - Various replays
- Wes Maggs - Replay where M28 rallied its asfs on an island even as a nuke missile could be seen about to hit it
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v158 Update
8 changes, including:- More aggressive gunships where they identify enemies in a zone that have moved away from nearby ground AA
- Greater use of TMLs outside the core base
- Arti drops should consider dropping the enemy base if it appears poorly defended
- ACUs should be more aggressive if they outrange the enemy ACU, but also less likely to suicide into multiple T2 PD
Acknowledgements
- Radde - Providing various replays which prompted most of these changes
- Various others who have provided replays in the last few days - I'm still working through a backlog of v155 replay based changes but hope to move onto more recent ones soon.
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v159 Update
Continuing the recent trend of smaller but quicker updates, this one features 10 changes, including:- Longer ranged naval units should be more likely to engage enemy surface threats even if there are nearby subs
- Added new logic for land untis deciding whether to attack a nearby enemy unit that is in the water, so they should factor in their likely range if they reach the water, and (if they cant go in water) if they can reach the enemy from land
- Units should be less likely to suicide to protect an aval base if that base has been destroyed
- ACU should cancel its upgrade if faced with a dangerous nearby threat
Acknowledgements:
- Relent0r - Identifying a typo with M28's hook of a TML missile callback that was causing compatibility issues with RNG
- Vortex, Lohkrim and c04spoon - Replays highlighting various issues that prompted most of this update's changes
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v160 Update
16 changes, including:- Tweaks to TML fatboy targeting to make the TMLs get built quicker during a mass or power stall, and making them more likely to target in certain cases
- M28's land units should be more cautious if they only slightly outrange the enemy (vs before where they'd be suicidal on the assumption they could kite)
- Fixed some occasional issues that could happen with air staging points being on water
- Air scouts should no longer be targeted near the enemy base even if M28 has air control.
- 2 workarounds for a LOUD mod for an issue with overcharge and an issue with bomber weapon range categories
Acknowledgements
Replays from the following:- Tazor
- Lohkrim
- c04spoon
- Vortex
(also had some from Radde which I hope to work through in the next release)
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v161 Update
Happy Christmas (almost!) everyone! 12 changes in this update, including:- Introduced new T2 bomber snipe logic - sometimes M28 should decide to just go for a T2 bomber snipe in place of its normal approach to the game (i.e. even if the enemy ACU is on full health)
- Fixed a significant bug that could break M28's asf logic introduced in v160
- Various adjustments to M28's snipe logic, so it shoudl be less likely to suicide gunships into a damaged ACU with significant anti-air defences
- Bombers should no longer immediately charge at a vulnerable ACU to damage it, but instead should build up their force and either abandon the attack if the enemy ACU gets in a safe position (e.g. under a shield), or attack in one go.
- Fixed a bug relating to the TML targeting logic
- 1 MOD specific change (reverting overcharge change made in v160 as the issue it was addressing should hopefully be resolved now)
Acknowledgements
- Radde replay from a few versions ago that prompted me to revisit M28's snipe logic (which then prompted me to introduce T2 bomber snipe logic)
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v162 Update
13 changes, including:- Fixed an issue with nuke targeting where it could understate the damage it expected to deal from a missile, and mae it more likely to fire when loaded if the enemy has T3 arti
- M28 should be more likely to get a game-ender if the enemy has multiple T3 arti
- Various improvements to the bomber logic, including no longer having strat bombers suicide into any enemy that gets within 300 of its rally point (quite how that logic lasted this long before I noticed it I dont know!)
- Added some fixes and redundancies for an issue where TMD woudl be insivible to M28 when firing at a mex that it detected when mid-upgrade.
- 1 mod specific change (adding slight support for T1 torpedo bombers)
Acknowledgements
- Radde – a number of replays on Xander Adaptive against v156
- Azraeel – Spotting a replay where M28 failed to win despite a strong eco lead, and spotting a typo made in a v162 commit before I’d even released v162!
