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    The current pre-release of the client ("pioneer" in the version) is only compatible to itself. So you can only play with other testers. Please be aware!

    M28AI Devlog (v302)

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved AI development
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    • maudlin27M Online
      maudlin27
      last edited by maudlin27

      v260 Update

      • 2 Land combat changes for niche scenarios involving long range direct fire units
      • 6 naval combat changes, mostly relating to stuck T3 naval units, including new 'shunting' logic to try and have stuck units forcibly moved slowly through the water
      • 2 ACU changes, to cover an issue where the ACU would get stuck alternating between two retreat points and die
      • 1 factory change (hard cap on number of deceivers to build)
      • 7 engineer and economy changes, mostly relating to support for maps with huge numbers of mexes early on
      • 3 mod specific changes, including support for the metal world mod

      Acknowledgements

      • Amrecian Sniper - Noting M28 built 200 deceivers in a game
      • Azraeel - Replay where M28 built too many t3 mobile arti in QUIET

      M27AI and M28AI developer:
      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
      M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
      • maudlin27M Online
        maudlin27
        last edited by maudlin27

        v261 Update
        6 changes based on a replay I came across where M28 struggled vs enemy cruisers, including:

        • More TMD should be built in response to cruisers
        • M28 should be even more aggressive with torp bombers once it reaches large numbers of them, as well as prioritising torps over gunships in an additional scenario
        • Fixed a bug where M28Easy wouldn't check for SMD when targeting the nearest enemy base with a nuke.

        M27AI and M28AI developer:
        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
        M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
        • maudlin27M Online
          maudlin27
          last edited by

          v262 Update
          8 changes mostly from having M28 fight M27 on astro, including:

          • Fewer factories and slightly delayed HQ upgrades where most of the mexes on the map are in the starting base
          • T2 arti should no longer be built in response to the enemy having mobile shields
          • Fixed a bug with M28's logic for deciding if it needs more factories where it was meant to try and have fewer factories relative to its mass on 20km+ maps pre-T3

          M27AI and M28AI developer:
          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
          M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
          • maudlin27M Online
            maudlin27
            last edited by maudlin27

            v263 Update
            8 changes, including:

            • M28 should now kite with auroras
            • Getting a T3 land/air should be delayed if M28 already has t3 air/land and no t3 mexes
            • M28Easy should no longer be able to intuit that longer ranged enemy units exist when they fire their weapon
            • New controlled armies mode to disable engineer production

            M27AI and M28AI developer:
            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
            M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

            SaverS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
            • SaverS Offline
              Saver @maudlin27
              last edited by

              @maudlin27 said in M28AI Devlog (v263):

              New controlled armies mode to disable engineer production

              Hi, could you explain this point a bit more?

              auch mal fünf gerade sein lassen

              maudlin27M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • maudlin27M Online
                maudlin27 @Saver
                last edited by

                @Saver By default if you give M28 control of your factory it will build combat units or engineers based in what it considers best.

                You can now enable a setting to prevent it building engineers from that factory.

                So eg if you have inherit ownership enabled and engineer production disabled, then if you build a land fac and toggle on M28 control then it will build only combat units and use them to attack the enemy

                It can also make the moba mode quite a bit different- instead of building a factory and the the AI would build up an entire base without you needing to build anything further, now your acu would have to build any mexes pgens factories etc

                M27AI and M28AI developer:
                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • SaverS Offline
                  Saver
                  last edited by Saver

                  Thx. That sounds great. I like using your MOBA mod, especially to test out other mods. Your AI reacts excellently with many mods.

                  auch mal fünf gerade sein lassen

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • maudlin27M Online
                    maudlin27
                    last edited by

                    v264 Update
                    6 changes:

                    • Fixed issue preventing multiple text markers being created
                    • Sniperbots should run from enemy t3 mobile arti if there is blocking cliffs or they lack mobile shield and are against large numbers of mobile arti
                    • Generalised the logic for recognising auroras can kite to cover other units that can rotate their body while moving
                    • Fixed bug with M28's logic that was meant to stop 3+ ACUs sheltering under the same shield
                    • More mobile arti should be built in proportion to sniperbots if M28 decides it wants sniperbots (to help cover cases where the enemy is sheltering behind cliffs and/or getting t3 mobile arti of its own)
                    • Fixed minor referencing bug with M28's ACU logic

                    Acknowledgements

                    • Azraeel – Highlighting the RotateBodyWhileMoving variable that the aurora has which can be used to tell if it’s able to kite enemies.
                    • Radde – Replay where 5 M28 ACUs sheltered under the same SMD (and died to a nuke), and noting issue with text pings not being possible.
                    • MostLostNoob – referencing comment I’d made on text pings in LOUD from before (that made it easier for me to locate the time of the change so I could copy part of the fix to FAF).

                    M27AI and M28AI developer:
                    https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                    https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                    M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                    • T Offline
                      Teralitha
                      last edited by Teralitha

                      When you choose a the late start option, the one where you can delay combat, and you have that black circle around your starting position preventing you from leaving, this AI is not restricted by this. At least partially. The commander wont leave or build outside the circle area, but they can send engineers all over the map. The engineers dont appear to be able to build anything though. They just wander around. Also the start timer display is missing. I dont know if that due to the mod though,

                      Object.jpg

                      Also the AI seems to focus on me in large team maps. I wasnt even the biggest threat but I am the one who kept getting all the artillery and nukes aimed at me. No matter how much shielding I put up i couldnt stop it. There is no way I can enjoy the game like that. It happens in every game. When the long range weapons get built, they always hit me first and thats annoying. I tried stealth, I tried hitting them first with my own artillery. Im convinced your AI has a hard on for the human player.

                      Some other feedback. None of my AI allies built any game enders. When I started building artillery, they all rushed engineers over to help me build mine. Maybe thats why they wouldnt build their own. I dunno, but I wish they didnt do that. I did see one of my allies got nuked ONCE, and they targeted a single mex by itself on the far reach my ally base, BEHIND it. So if they had anti nuke it would have been shot down. I thought that was odd. I also tried floating mass and energy so they could get my extra to help them out. Didnt make a difference. Maybe shared resources is a bad thing with AI. Maybe I was draining them.

                      maudlin27M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • maudlin27M Online
                        maudlin27 @Teralitha
                        last edited by maudlin27

                        @Teralitha I'm assuming by late start you mean the No Rush option, I tested just now and it worked as expected (M28 kept within the dark circle until the time expired at which point its engineers and other units moved out)

                        It doesn't specifically target human players with its artillery and nukes, it just targets what it considers is the best enemy target. So, if you have no SMD and your teammates do, or none of you have SMD but it thinks it will destroy more bulidings if it targets you, it'll target you with the nuke. Artillery is a bit more complicated but it'll be more likely to target enemy t3/experimental artillery (so again if you build that and your teammates dont then expect to be targeted). If you build the artillery under stealth and prevent the enemy scouting it then it shouldn't be targeted while it's being built (although if it's near other high value buildings that M28 is aware of then it could still get hit as a result of those other buildings being targeted).

                        As for them not building game-enders and assisting yours, that's correct, if they're assisting your experimental then they're far less likely to build their own at the same time. You can disable the helpful teammate option in game settings if you dont like them doing that.

                        For shared resources it has some effect (as a basic test I put myself and an M28 against an M28 AIx, and I spawned in a bunch of RAS SACUs for me - my non-AIx teammate did much better because it had a huge amount of overflow); you can also share resources manually I think by clicking on the mass showing for the teammate in the scoreboard (although I've not actually checked that works with AI teammates).

                        M27AI and M28AI developer:
                        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                        M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • maudlin27M Online
                          maudlin27
                          last edited by

                          v265 Update
                          8 changes, including:

                          • T1 arti outranged by enemy units in one location should consider attacking nearby locations where they outrange the enemy
                          • 4 improvements to selens so they dont block engineers building when cloaked, and cloak from enemy gunships
                          • Experimentals should reassess attacking a zone if its threat becomes negligible by significantly more than when it originally decided to attack
                          • Fixed a bug where a 1.2 resource 1.0 build rate M28 AIx would have its ACUs benefit from a 1.2 build rate on completing an upgrade

                          Acknowledgements

                          • Radde - Various replays and highlighting issues with the 1.2 build rate for ACUs and with selens blocking construction

                          M27AI and M28AI developer:
                          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                          M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                          • maudlin27M Online
                            maudlin27
                            last edited by

                            v266 Update
                            6 changes:

                            • Slight increase in ACU aggression in late-mid game and if facing an outranged enemy ACU
                            • Fixed some issues with the late-game arti template (reclaiming blocking units; building ravagers instead of triads; getting UEF quantum gateway for shield SACUs)
                            • Fixed a bug with finding the best target for t1 arti drops

                            Acknowledgements

                            • Radde - replay against v264 which featured a couple of the above bugs.

                            M27AI and M28AI developer:
                            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                            M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                            • maudlin27M Online
                              maudlin27
                              last edited by

                              v267 Update

                              1. Fixed the t1 arti target selection bug I thought I’d fixed in the previous version
                              2. Added some redundancies to assign more build power to power instead of experimentals when M28 is stalling E
                              3. Reduced the minimum amount of t3 land needed to start on an experimental in QUIET
                              4. Ahwassa should be more aggressive if pushed back to its core base, and consider attacking enemies in adjacent zones.

                              Acknowledgements
                              Relentor screenshot and comment that M28 was building an experimental when stalling E

                              M27AI and M28AI developer:
                              https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                              https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                              M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                              • maudlin27M Online
                                maudlin27
                                last edited by

                                v268 Update
                                7 changes, including:

                                • Reduced the distance for ASFs protecting bombers from enemy air units (when M28 lacks air control)
                                • Made ACUs more aggressive when they outrange the enemy ACU (again), and adjusted logic so they ignore enemy T1 PD threat if they have gun
                                • Tanks should be less likely to attack an unupgraded enemy ACU
                                • Adjusted decision on where to build PD to hopefully fix a bug where it could get built too close to the enemy

                                Acknowledgements

                                • Radde - Several replays and highlighting PD placement bug

                                M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                • maudlin27M Online
                                  maudlin27
                                  last edited by

                                  v269 Update
                                  8 changes, including:

                                  • Fixing some issues that meant outranged tanks would suicide into the enemy
                                  • Significantly reduced the number of engineers to assign to tasks when they've recently run from the enemy
                                  • Selens should no longer be paused to save energy
                                  • More asfs should be built if M28 has air control but not by much

                                  Acknowledgements

                                  • Radde - several mapgen replays

                                  M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                  https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                  https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                  M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                  • maudlin27M Online
                                    maudlin27
                                    last edited by

                                    v270 Update
                                    12 changes, including:

                                    • ACUs shouldn't cancel RAS to get stealth (unless at risk of dying)
                                    • MMLs should dodge missiles reflected back onto them by loyalists
                                    • Fixed a bug preventing M28's unit target priorities from having effect
                                    • Added a workaround for an issue where a megalith wouldn't fire despite enemies being infront of it
                                    • Fixed a bug with strat bombers being stuck hover-bombing if they fired their AA gun at an interceptor
                                    • An air experimental should be even less likely to be built before a land experimental

                                    Acknowledgements

                                    • Radde - Various replays and highlighting a bug with a strategic bomber
                                    • Pmh1 - Noting a bug in campaign mission 3 where M28 wouldn't build ahwassas as the campaign AI (partially fixed; for reference if anyone else has similar issues, killing the engineers that were meant to build the ahwassas should hopefully cause the map to expand)

                                    Trophy Award

                                    • Radde and KuhwaKlimakleber - Awarded the Radde trophy for beating M28 1.4 on a 15km mapgen

                                    M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                    https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                    https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                    M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • maudlin27M Online
                                      maudlin27
                                      last edited by

                                      v271 Update
                                      11 changes, including:

                                      • Sniperbots should be less aggressive against MMLs if they have lost radar coverage of them
                                      • Seraphim subs should be less likely to surface to use their AA attack and should submerge sooner when facing a combined air and navy threat
                                      • The SMD/SML nearest completion should be assisted by engineers if there are multiple in a zone
                                      • ACUs should cancel their upgrade and run from an approaching experimental slightly sooner than before
                                      • Added a workaround so cloaked selens should be ignored by most of M28's land combat logic

                                      Acknowledgements

                                      • Radde - various replays and highlighting an issue with cloaked selens

                                      M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                      https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                      M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • maudlin27M Online
                                        maudlin27
                                        last edited by

                                        v272 Update
                                        8 changes, including various adjustments to land factories to make it less likely T1-T2 factories build MMLs and T1 arti if M28 has access to T3 land, stopping sniperbots running from t3 mobile arti if there's friendly T2 arti firing at the mobile arti, and increasing the range of manual T2 arti targeting so it considers targeting enemy mobile shields in preference to the default firing logic.

                                        M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                        https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                        M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • maudlin27M Online
                                          maudlin27
                                          last edited by

                                          v273 Update
                                          7 changes based on a live replay I came across, including:

                                          • Fixed a bug that would break M28's land combat logic if it had nearby friendly T2 arti
                                          • Gunships far from the main gunship force should no longer reinforce if it would mean traveling over enemy AA inbetween
                                          • Fatboys should build more mobile shields if against a novax
                                          • MMLs should check a larger number of nearby enemies to assess if they should run from that enemy

                                          M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                          M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • maudlin27M Online
                                            maudlin27
                                            last edited by

                                            v274 Update
                                            6 updates mostly based on a Radde replay (turtling against M28):

                                            • Land factories should build fewer units if the enemy appears to be turtling
                                            • Reduced the T1 arti to be built by T2 land factories
                                            • Added a small chance of M28 getting T3 arti relatively early on (in place of its normal logic)
                                            • T2 shields covering SMD should be upgraded to T3 if the enemy has t3 arti/novax and a nuke

                                            Acknowledgements

                                            • Radde - 1v1 replay

                                            M27AI and M28AI developer:
                                            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v81-devlog
                                            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v294
                                            M28 trophy holders: Radde, Yew (Radde trophy, v285) and Zwaffel (Sladow trophy, v284)

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2

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