AI Wave Survival Mod Information
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Really cool mod and well executed, but I think the default settings are borderline impossible to win against, at least with a 2-man team, like we tried. I think those need a bit of tuning, since new players have no idea how an ideal setup would look like.
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Doom Wave Changes:
-On some maps, Dooms could get stuck at spawn and never attack players. Stuck Dooms will now be detected, removed, and respawned. If the Doom Wave is only the size of one, this will accidentally spawn the next wave as well.
-Attack scripts have been reworked to be more aggressive. Dooms will not stand around so much after reaching their objectives.
-Dooms have all been given long range cruise missiles. These missiles track, and can strike all surface units, even submerged. Can be stopped by TMD.
-Fatboy Dooms always seemed a bit weak compared to its peers. The Fatboy has been given a health boost and has the most lethal new cruise missile system.Support Bases:
Bug where Bases would spawn HARMS on land has been corrected.@Utopian
Thanks for the feedback! The 800 rating was a guesstimate, and from before I added Rifts and other changes that increased the challenge. Rifts add such a random difficulty, it is hard to even say how much more difficult it makes the mod.I'd greatly appreciate suggestions on changing the defaults for new players. I tend to test play with players who almost exclusively play survival, so their ranks do not accurately reflect their ability.
I did watch a replay of yours to see how it went. Some things I noticed:
-10 km map. Smaller maps are generally harder, as waves reach players sooner. Also had fewer starting mexes than most maps we like to play for survival. What map people play has a huge impact on difficulty.
-It was 2 humans and 3 bots versus the HQ. The bots count as players and therefore increase the wave size calculation. While I use bots in testing, they make terrible survival allies. They don't build proper defenses or respond correctly to artillery and T4 units. And they build structures, like T3 artillery, that can trigger retaliation scripts.
-Being new players to the mod, you started building the special defensive units included in the mod a little too late. That and the AI allies actively obstructed you by taking up some of the best areas for PD and defensive buildings.
-I did balance the survival play while using other mods that make things easier. 50% AirCrash Damage, 50% AntiNukes, and 1.5x ACU Boost, which make a big difference in difficulty.What aspects of the survival did you feel were the most difficult for players new to the mod?
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Version 262:
Rifts:
-Rifts wave tech progression has been slowed about 10% and it's chances of spawning T4 units reduced by 20% compared to waves spawned by HQ.
-When rifts start spawning larger waves, a one second delay between each unit spawning should help units from piling up.
-Rifts should hit further from unpathable terrain, which should limit units getting stuck or having trouble pathing.Satellites:
As satellites were becoming the default meta, a countermeasure has been introduced. Satellites will occasionally be killed by the countermeasure and will need to be re-deployed. Once the HQ is under 10% health, all Satellites will be destroyed, but this event will only occur once.
Note: If using the Blackops ACU mod, there is an option to build two satellites, one being the satellite for the UEF ACU. This satellite has no weapon, and if built, will cripple the Novax Center, preventing the building from being able to build anymore satellites.Messages:
AI will now send messages to chat, making it easier for players to review. At start of game, players can check chat to see if Land/Air/Navy is on, when Air/Navy waves start, if Hold to Win is on, and if Nukes, Dooms, Airdrops, and Rift Orbs are on. Other chat messages throughout the match will provide additional useful information.Default Settings:
Defaults settings have been adjusted to make the mod a little easier for new players who don't know how to customize the settings. Default settings for Endgame have been made a little harder.Sera T4 Tac:
Passive tac launcher buffed to 200 range and 300DPS. -
Shields:
Both player and HQ Guardian shields have been buffed. Small increases in shield strength, with large increases in shield regeneration rate, which has been set to 0.006 of shield strength.Satellites:
Fixed bug in countermeasure for satellite spam. Satellites also only do 1/3rd damage against HQ's buildings. Countermeasures will randomly trigger once enough satellites are built and destroy satellites in the air. The Emergency Countermeasures, which only triggers once and will destroy all satellites, has been changed to be triggered when HQ is at 20% health. The plus side of adding a satellite countermeasure is I learned satellites were counting towards the antiair response script, and have corrected the oversight.Artillery Retaliation:
Retaliation strength has been reduced a little versus T3 artillery and Novax Centers, meaning won't spawn as many counter artillery. Previous response was too punishing versus T3 artillery, when considering DPS and the changes to satellites make them less effective. -
ACU Hunter Bots:
Reduced their torpedo damage by 20%. They have a habit of wiping out entire navies.Added New T3 Heavy Cruisers to give naval players a few more options. These units also will appear in waves:
-Cybran T3 Heavy Cruiser: A good mix of weapons for submerged, surface, and air threats. Able to walk on land. Can beat the UEF Neptune T3 Cruiser at range, but will lose in close distance fights. Good Intel support.
-Seraphim T3 Missile Cruiser: Long-range tracking missiles effective at hitting moving targets and very good AA weapons. When toe-to-toe with an Aeon Torrent T3 Cruiser, both will eliminate one another. Good Intel support. -
I don't have the base defenses as high as you do. i have the HQ shields and turrets on the lowest setting. i like being able to destroy them
monkey's wishlist. i want the ability to:
- set normal nuke silos at hq (not 9 million hp crap)
- set lower level defenses at support bases
- adjust number of rifts spawned (currently linked to number of number of support bases). would like the default to be minimum 1, with an extra rift for each second player. what happens currently is there is a minimum of 3 support bases, when with playing 1 or 2 players there are 3 rifts spawning and it is horrible.
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nice to haves:
- reduced 2nd HQ spawn options. i only use one HQ. i have to scroll past those menu items every time, it's annoying.
- change order of wave tech progression, put slower at top. i'm always accidentally setting it to faster
- acu hunters suck. they are too tough. they don't feel realistic. reduce their hp or armour a bit if you can
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thematic suggestions:
- most survival games have a 30-40 min timer and when that timer finishes the game is won. the way you play your mod is different, and not particularly clear. i get the impression once the timer is up, that's when the doom waves start. it seems to be that you have to kill a couple of dooms, and then i'm not sure what happens. it's not very clear or satisfying.
you should make some text explaining what is happening and how to win. do you have to kill the dooms, do you have to kill the HQ? do units ever stop spawning?
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otherwise, i'm enjoying the mod. the settings were overwhelming at first, but i've gotten to know them. i like how you split them up by category.
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regarding the end game, you know what would be cool is when the main timer is over, there is a similar UI element. maybe it shows the number of dooms remaining to kill.
something to indicate that we are in a new stage of the game
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more thoughts!! this is about the AI behaviour and unit composition, especially for navy
I'm not fan of the way the navy units horde. espcially in t3 onwards, the battleships, aircraft carriers etc will blindly suicide into my defenses. it's not especially satisfying. i would like the long ranged naval units to hold back in the same way that t3 mobile artillery do.
also the composition of naval units spawned is not very satisfying. i see t3 nuclear subs, aircraft carriers. these units are useless! can you please get these to spawn a lot less?
also similar, but less egregious, i'd like a change in the behaviour of the experimentals and bosses. i would like the long range ones to hold back more just within firing range.
i was thinking sometimes the passageways are narrow and exps/bosses/dooms take up a lot of space. maybe make it so the long range ones hold back, until there are more behind them wanting to move in, so they move in closer to make space
with the exps/bosses/dooms, when they get in your bases, they're not as devastating as they could be. they lack the cunning and effectiveness that a human would have. they just kind of stand there and take fire. i'd like them to be a lot more devastating in what they attack.
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- The nuke launchers spawn in, launch, and self-destruct. They aren't meant to be destroyable.
- Support Bases: I was actually considering improving their defenses! Actually, I was going to cap the max number of buildings they spawn in.
- Rifts: I was planning to add some more settings for the rifts.
- 2nd Spawn Settings: Yeah, they are a hassle, but allow for highly customized settings. It is a great way to set a secondary target that will weaken waves or open up avenues of attack for teams that successfully destroy. That is the idea, anyways. The customization also helps with hosting on oddly shaped maps or to limit waves from certain directions.
- Wave Tech Progression: I make the same mistake, and will probably change this around.
- ACU Hunters: I added those as a counter to high level players, as they go after players with lots of SACUs. Their spawn time can be delayed and their numbers reduced. I have nerfed them several times, so will consider lowering their health. But then I would be tempted to add stun to their death explosions! (That was in the original idea, but would be a nightmare for front players.)
- Thematic Suggestions: I've always left that up to the host to decide. I am currently looking into a Hybrid Hold To Win endgame option, where once the HQ takes a certain % of damage, difficulty will ramp up, but a time will starts that teams need to survive till to win.
- T3 Navy: Yeah, that stage was kinda boring. I've added T2 Navy into later Navy stages. Been meaning to do so, as there are some useful T2 navy ships. Also adjusted the behavior of Navy. An increased number of Navy ships will choose stand-off range against targets. The aircraft carriers are useful for AA and TMD, but their ability to not do direct fire is a limitation. I changed the aircraft carriers and nuclear subs to have weak direct attack weapons.
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v268:
Navy:
-Some changes to late game Navy. Aircraft Carriers have all been given weak Direct Fire weapons so that they offer some threat to ships and structures, and have shrunk by 75% in size (their size can cause log jams). Nuclear subs all have long range torpedoes to attack naval vessels. A larger percentage of Naval vessels will choose a stand-off range to attack. And T2 Navy will continue to spawn, even in late game. These changes should help to make late game naval battles more interesting.Dooms:
-On death, the storms left by Dooms will act as Rifts and spawn in T3 units that will disperse and attack players. Electron Storms that spawn randomly around the map have an increased chance of spawning in player's bases.Wave Tech Progression Option:
-Reorganized so that slowing the tech progression is listed first.Satellites/CZARS:
-Upped their damaged to 40% normal versus Dooms, Support Bases, and HQs. Previously it was 33%.Over-Charge:
-Increased to 3x damage vs Dooms. Can do significant damage with enough energy storage. -
Hello Rama,
could it be, that UEF Engi Station-Drones count as high level Air units, that spawn extra ASFs?
if someone builds UEF Engi Station they get usually 50-100 ASF per Wave which doesnt makes sense. Only if they count like a T4 Unit and spawn 9 ASF per Engi Station. Or your Settings set a fixes %-Spawn of ASF if any Air units exists. Does it lower Gunships and Bomber then?
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Hello Rama,
i just had a game where we spammed about 40 EMP Launcher and destroyed 2nd HQ and a few support bases easily.
it cost 4k mass per launcher but how much per missile?
15k dmg per missile on buildings could be a bit overpowered if the mass cost is low.
1 EMP Missile = 15k Dmg (Dmg per Mass = ? / Build time?)
1 Nuke = 35k (cost about 15k = 2,33 Dmg per Mass and 5 or 6 min build time = 58,33 DPS on buildings)Additionaly i think the range is too high. maybe reduce it to t3 arty range?
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About the drone stations, I'll have to check the script. The ASF response should only be against T3/T4 air units. The ASF response script is separate from the regular Air script, and does not reduce the amount of other air spawned.
The EMP launchers were a unit I introduced in a much earlier version, and no one ever really used, so I never bothered to balance. I am aware of their OP nature. The missiles cost the same as regular Tacs, as I never edited their costs. I was considering removing, as the Sera T4 Tacs are their balanced replacement, or making them a special weapon only unlocked after achieving a certain goal.
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Small update:
- Support Base minimum number reduced to 2.
- Destroying support bases before build time is over only triggers negative random events, and may cause waves to start early.
- Some of UEF Atlantis' weapons can fire on surface targets.
- If navy spawn set to zero, but players build navy, counter naval units may spawn.
- EMP Tacs balanced. Reduced damage against HQ's and Support Bases.
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Hello Rama,
thank you for making our lives difficult. I really appreciate it!
What do you think about submitting your mod to the FAF News Feed or asking a FAF Youtuber for a little tutorial?
How about changing the Rift Orb to the Sera Rift-Gate from the campain?
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@slykar it did get a promotion when it was first released if I'm not mistaken but feel free to ask again for it to be again
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Hello Rama,
i hosted a few games 10.02.2024 and a few ppl had desync in the game even before waves spawned. i think something is broken or does a preset-setting conflicts with mod updates? (one of the game had 1800r and 1900r player)
@adastranoob
Mhh if it got one already idk if it should be there again.
i wanted to submit it but i dont use discord.I can only recommend to highlight it more because i have like a 50 ppl playerbase if i host my map with the mod and even get pm-ed to host or write back as soon as i host again. And my lobbies are usually full within 5 min.
its just too much hassle for most ppl to go throw the mod settings but it is highly enjoyable for 80% that visit my games and they keep coming back after 50 runs.
