Sera&Aoen SACU upgrade slots reordering to make Aoen SACU upgrade options more relevant and nerf Sera Tele SACU

@evildrew said in Sera&Aoen SACU upgrade slots reordering to make Aoen SACU upgrade options more relevant and nerf Sera Tele SACU:

I have never seen anyone protect an SMD in that way. Tele sacu attacks are so rare on SMDs that almost no one will protect their SMD in that way.

You clearly havent played dualgap enough my friend. Mobile shield protecting valuable structures is super common there now.

I also forgot to mention that you can repair smd faster than sacu can deal damage, or build new shields as soon as previous ones die.

@evildrew said in Sera&Aoen SACU upgrade slots reordering to make Aoen SACU upgrade options more relevant and nerf Sera Tele SACU:

If you do though you have a lot of added costs and occupy a lot of space which on some maps you have but not always in the exact spot where you want to place your SMD.

3000-5000 mass on shields is not a lot of added costs. In case of having not enough space you can build mobile shields or repair your SMD.

@terarii said in Sera&Aoen SACU upgrade slots reordering to make Aoen SACU upgrade options more relevant and nerf Sera Tele SACU:

@evildrew said in Sera&Aoen SACU upgrade slots reordering to make Aoen SACU upgrade options more relevant and nerf Sera Tele SACU:

I have never seen anyone protect an SMD in that way. Tele sacu attacks are so rare on SMDs that almost no one will protect their SMD in that way.

You clearly havent played dualgap enough my friend. Mobile shield protecting valuable structures is super common there now.

I also forgot to mention that you can repair smd faster than sacu can deal damage, or build new shields as soon as previous ones die.

@evildrew said in Sera&Aoen SACU upgrade slots reordering to make Aoen SACU upgrade options more relevant and nerf Sera Tele SACU:

If you do though you have a lot of added costs and occupy a lot of space which on some maps you have but not always in the exact spot where you want to place your SMD.

3000-5000 mass on shields is not a lot of added costs. In case of having not enough space you can build mobile shields or repair your SMD.

I may not play dual gap out of my own free will but I do watch people on discord streaming it. They usually place the SMD close to their core Mexes and hives so that kind of shielding doesnt fit. Anyway I am looking at it on a wholistic approach. On setons which you play nowadays, you know that people don’t establish their hive farm around the SMD, nor do they place the SMD out in the open to be surrounded by shields like that. It is on the coast, next to the mountain/hill…
So we have to conceive of a generalized SMD placement and positioning when assessing if it is OP or balanced.
Regarding the air grid or mass fab targets. You as the defending player do not know if the tele sacu will be a shielded nano or engineer tml sacu unless you happen to be scouting and looking closely at the right thing at the right time.

@evildrew said in Sera&Aoen SACU upgrade slots reordering to make Aoen SACU upgrade options more relevant and nerf Sera Tele SACU:

On setons which you play nowadays, you know that people don’t establish their hive farm around the SMD, nor do they place the SMD out in the open to be surrounded by shields like that. It is on the coast, next to the mountain/hill…

Setons players build SMDs not on main base for several reasons:
a)On air, It protects both top and bottom plains you can build air grid on, since 99% of setons land is practically unusable. On rock, SMD near hill is protected from air snipes, and SMD on beach protects ur t3 navy HQ, which is actually the most valuable nuke target on that slot
b) nuke+telesacu combo takes so much mass, power and time, so doing means a certain loss of your slot, and loss of the game later, either by having one of your navies crushed, or air crushed and navy torped.
c) Even if main base gets nuked, smd survives and lets you rebuild without having all your BP assisting it.

@evildrew said in Sera&Aoen SACU upgrade slots reordering to make Aoen SACU upgrade options more relevant and nerf Sera Tele SACU:

Regarding the air grid or mass fab targets. You as the defending player do not know if the tele sacu will be a shielded nano or engineer tml sacu unless you happen to be scouting and looking closely at the right thing at the right time.

Sacus can be told apart just by looking at teleporting distance, nobody would ever tele a shielded sacu 2 kilometers away from its target

Engineering TML sacu can launch a whopping 1 or 2 TMLS (enough to penetrate a single t2 shield or kill a single t3 pgen) before you get the TMD built.

Shield nano sacu usually dies to t1 bomber spam and does nothing other than making the air guy reclaim 1-2 pgens.

@terarii you make too many assumptions about having sufficient build power in all areas and reacting in time, especially with aoen tmd having no range that is a problem. Also you often won’t notice a tele tml sacu until your mass fab blows up. SACUs can build shield stealth flak and even more tml launchers on bigger maps while being unnoticed. You just cannot assume that a defending player is always aware of an Sacu having teled in.

@evildrew in a 0 rating average game your logic makes sense, but anyone with 1500+ rating and atleast some game and player knowledge would be able to counter any tele with ease. You just cannot assume that a defending player is always zoomed into his mexes with minimap closed and no intel whatsoever.