@arma473 I didnt propose any changes to HP in the OP. The UEF advantage would arise from changing the damage of all t1 sub torps as mentioned.
Cybran EMP torp would be cool, I agree.
@arma473 I didnt propose any changes to HP in the OP. The UEF advantage would arise from changing the damage of all t1 sub torps as mentioned.
Cybran EMP torp would be cool, I agree.
@arma473 OOps, You are right ! My idea not exactly "from the scratch the submarine", and yes similar to Selens, but from the scratch , the submarine or navy balance, since the submarines could now trap in wolf packs the enemy squads, very like what happens in real naval war.
U use them to kill engis, underwater mexes, lonely ships, sonar or week fleetelements, such as cruisers and shield boats.
@BlackJaguar said in T1 sub rebalance:
What we need to do , IMHO, is a scratchbuild submarine modification. They became invisible to sonar while stationary, and only when move or/and fire torpedos, they could be localized by sonar.
That's cool. It is possible to add a 'silent running' mode and change a few stats as well, like cut speed to 1/3 and get stealth. Give it a toggle button like the Cybran destroyer walking, or the old Cybran Cruizer weapon select.
I love navy a lot. And am down for anything that changes or expands on it. Possibly even strategic things in water, like mexes or power. Perhaps give subs some reclaim ability? Would be kinda cool.
Personally I think it would be cool if there were torpedos you build like a tactical missile silo. As torps IRL are terrifyingly effective.
You must deceive the enemy, sometimes your allies, but you must always deceive yourself!
I would like to submit the following replay in support of my notion that T1 subs are underpowered: #13361553 https://replay.faforever.com/13361553
This is the ZLO versus BlastChilled game in Roanoke's Abyss. In this game with extensive naval battles, neither player constructed any T1 subs all game.
look at this one : https://replay.faforever.com/13360106
one player didn't bother making subs, while the other one, used his own subs for a long time and was able to deal quite a lot of damage through out the game.
Also if you want to see map with subs look at any flooded map in teamgame (eg flodded tabula rasa)
@keyser I think FunkOffs replay has more credence as its a more relevant map and had more extensive naval battles. You chose a small island map where naval play is very limited due to the small water streams that eliminate the abillity to properly micro.
@keyser said in T1 sub rebalance:
one player didn't bother making subs, while the other one, used his own subs for a long time and was able to deal quite a lot of damage through out the game.
I actually went through that replay tracking the first sub with a stopwatch. Jagged's first sub spends no less than 7 minutes and 12 seconds actively firing at something, and it dies with around 1100 mass killed.
At 360 mass per sub, extrapolating that means it would take an average of 2 minutes and 21 seconds of constant firing for a T1 sub to do its own mass worth in damage. I can't think of a single other combat unit that would have to survive in combat for that long to recoup its worth.
@Deribus it's true but it also understandable since subs are targeted by only a very limited amount of unit.
Once again if you look at water mexx map you will get to see subs more often.
I can think of only 2 situations that I would build t1 subs in: