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    The current pre-release of the client ("pioneer" in the version) is only compatible to itself. So you can only play with other testers. Please be aware!

    How do you feel about recent Navy changes?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Balance Discussion
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    • FtXCommandoF Offline
      FtXCommando @waffelzNoob
      last edited by FtXCommando

      @waffelznoob said in How do you feel about recent Navy changes?:

      I don't think (aeon) ladder players were a fan of getting cybran frigated either. I think t1 navy is more dynamic now if anything now that aeon frigates have more range
      aeon destros are still very strong from what i've seen so it's not like their dynamic of wanting t2 navy asap has changed, they now just have somewhat human frigates that actually allow them to get to t2

      btw don’t get me wrong, you just can’t have much variety in t1 stage and I don’t really mind the normalization of frigs much. T1 is the map control insurance stage, you need similar units because you need similar mass level efficiency to not create a snowball disasterclass situation when both players are playing exactly the same at game start and minimal room for outplaying actually existed. This is how you get navy meta of “I didn’t roll cybran so I will ignore navy fully and just make torps.”

      That’s why I think the lab change but more the flare change specifically as one of the objectively best balance decisions done by FAF for the game. It managed to resolve a big issue with Aeon t1 roster without directly normalizing the tank, an incredibly hard task for such a normalized segment of the game.

      I’d also say this is why shard is one of the worst things FAF ever inherited from GPG.

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      • ZeldafanboyZ Offline
        Zeldafanboy
        last edited by

        Make Wagners somewhat usable to get back in water now that Cybran frig has been toned down

        put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • S Offline
          snoog
          last edited by

          Navy remains my most hated thing to play, thought air isn't far behind. I'll continue hosting mapgens that don't require navy 🙂

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • The_JanitorT Offline
            The_Janitor
            last edited by

            I'll shove my idea here with zero shame about it, right now there is no solid reason on why navy factories would not be able to build hover units. They can build aeon and Serra engies (that can hover) so there should be a reason for navy be able to build hover type units to add extra variety of units to the mix. As far as navy changes goes it is still very much balanced by the numbers with not that many faction traits being shown, even less now then before. Will note I only ever played 4 navy games with three being on dualgap and one on eye of the storm map so take that input as you see fit.

            Secure the kill and send it off.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • Chenbro101C Offline
              Chenbro101
              last edited by

              The cybran frig range is annoying to play with. Mexes other frigates can reach are now out of range.

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              • CheeseBerryC Offline
                CheeseBerry
                last edited by

                I'm mostly surprised by how big of a difference the aeon and cybran frig range adjustments have made to the feel of both. Especially aeon v cybran t1 navy is not only playable now, the range difference actually makes the frig encounter much more asymmetrical than I'd have expected. All around good stuff imo.

                I weirdly kind of miss being threatened by aeon destros though. The 10 less range makes playing against them quite a bit easier as, even when they are controlled by a good player, they get less shots of "for free". idk, I just kinda miss their oppressiveness??

                While I'd phrase it differently, FTX is imo right in that t2 navy feels more samey now. Playing around with the destro costs does seem like a reasonable approach. This is very much a setoner's opinion though, where t2 navy probably matters the least, so idk how to do that in a balanced way.

                Rescaling the shield boat seems to be a success so far in that it's a buff to uef t2 navy. Not sure about the t3 lategame navy, but the one time I got to make a couple uef BS it didn't really feel like anything had changed, besides that you want less mass in shield boats now. Making the uef BS slightly faster was almost certainly a good idea though.

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                • TheWeakieT Offline
                  TheWeakie
                  last edited by

                  Just a quick note that aside from the cybran/aeon frig range changes (which add more diversity) the t1/t2 navy changes were mostly there as a temporary fix to make some units (cybran frig/aeon destro) less oppressive and others slightly less bad (uef destro) that were added right before the patch.

                  FtXCommandoF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • FtXCommandoF Offline
                    FtXCommando @TheWeakie
                    last edited by FtXCommando

                    @thewheelie said in How do you feel about recent Navy changes?:

                    Just a quick note that aside from the cybran/aeon frig range changes (which add more diversity) the t1/t2 navy changes were mostly there as a temporary fix to make some units (cybran frig/aeon destro) less oppressive and others slightly less bad (uef destro) that were added right before the patch.

                    Yeah on a statline basis they became more diversified, but I mostly refer to the "role" of the unit. The frigs all operate in the same "role" even though the statelines themselves became more diversified. It isn't like obsidian operating in a different role from a pillar but closer to a hoplite having different stats from a mongoose. Which isn't a problem for t1 units btw, that is just how the initial tech level has to work.

                    The changes to make salem have an easier time shooting backwards, have an easier time getting into range of Aeon destro, etc just work to converge everything to the same role.

                    TheWeakieT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • TheWeakieT Offline
                      TheWeakie @FtXCommando
                      last edited by

                      @ftxcommando said in How do you feel about recent Navy changes?:

                      have an easier time getting into range of Aeon destro, etc just work to converge everything to the same role.

                      Just a quick note that aside from the cybran/aeon frig range changes (which add more diversity) the t1/t2 navy changes were mostly there as a temporary fix to make some units (cybran frig/aeon destro) less oppressive and others slightly less bad (uef destro) that were added right before the patch.

                      ZeldafanboyZ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • FtXCommandoF Offline
                        FtXCommando
                        last edited by

                        Listen buddy you said the frig change adds diversity, but it doesn't change anything about how frigs play out in their role.

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                        • TheWeakieT Offline
                          TheWeakie
                          last edited by

                          entire t3 rebalance summed up

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                          • ZeldafanboyZ Offline
                            Zeldafanboy @TheWeakie
                            last edited by

                            @thewheelie

                            So the cybran frig cost increase is temporary? Will it be reverted back to its previous value?

                            put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

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                            • TheWeakieT Offline
                              TheWeakie
                              last edited by

                              I'm the one who proposed the navy changes and i'm not happy with how it ended up. The range changes i quite like since it makes t1 navy more interesting but the mass cost changes are very bland and boring. I'd rather keep the cybran frig stronger and give the other factions something in return to counteract it, or do something that keeps it strong in certain situations but weaker in other (like the range changes).

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                              • J Offline
                                JaggedAppliance Balance Team
                                last edited by JaggedAppliance

                                Aeon kinda wrecks cybran in navy on every level now. The destroyer changes were actually pretty good imo. It's less of an auto loss with cybran detroyers vs aeon destroyers but the t1 stage is hard with cybran and aeon t3+t4 battleships are just really strong imo. Cybran frigates being nerfed is fine, they were of course op. You also can't use t2 subs against aeon because of aeon destoyers and frigate torp defence.

                                https://www.youtube.com/c/jaggedappliance

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                                • MazorNoobM Offline
                                  MazorNoob
                                  last edited by MazorNoob

                                  Remove radar from Cyb frigates and make moles amphibious.

                                  Edit: And I guess boost mole radar when in water from 45 to 80? Yadda yadda radar waves work better in water or something.

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