Possibly how to make kennels better

Since hive has safe buildpower (no engineering drone to shoot down and have to rebuild) what about making kennel drones cost zero mass/energy to build while still costing buildtime? It would still make losing them a problem but at least it wouldn't cost resources to rebuild, only time, and drone buildtime/station buildpower can be adjusted so it can't be assisted into replacing them easily, similarly how it works for nukes/nuke defense

unrelated note but for some reason I remember these stations being called kernels rather than kennels

My thoughts on improving the Kennel were to improve the drone itself, as I thought the building was already in a decent spot.
Specifically, increasing the building range and speed that the drone has.
That way, it wouldn't fumble around as much as it does and could start projects from a slightly farther position away slightly sooner.

This was, however, before the Engineering Station changes were made.

~ Stryker

The balance problems of a unit that costs 0 resources to rebuild while only counterable by units that cost non-0 resources to rebuild speak for themselves.

The kennels were already buffed, and the hives nerfed in the most recent patch. We will monitor how these changes affect the gameplay cut currently there are no plans to further buff the Kennels.
Hives have safe BP and the ability to switch between buildings/units instantly but only in their limited range. On the other hand Kennels' drones have a lower range, finite speed but in theory infinite range. It's a trade-off. If they would cost 0 mass the penalty for flying across the map and trying to collect reclaim and dying would be too small. They are not meant for that so there is no point in encouraging that.

@deribus said in Possibly how to make kennels better:

The balance problems of a unit that costs 0 resources to rebuild while only counterable by units that cost non-0 resources to rebuild speak for themselves.

it doesn't cost 0 to build, you need to build the station itself first or you have no drone to speak of, it would merely make it not have to cost mass to rebuild the drone just like hives don't have to (because they don't have one to get shot down in first place, while still having long range buildpower of one)

I am suggesting this to make it less annoying when drones get instakilled by random aoe that wasn't even aimed at them, and then have to use up t2 mexes worth of mass to rebuild them, which isn't something that effects hives

Latest buff did include a change in elevation and hp to somewhat help them not get killed by the mentioned random aoe.

yes and I am offering an alternative to that that keeps the drones as they were before instead while also attempting to fix the problem those changes were supposed to

@tagada said in Possibly how to make kennels better:

If they would cost 0 mass the penalty for flying across the map and trying to collect reclaim and dying would be too small. They are not meant for that so there is no point in encouraging that.

That's not true because you ignore opportunity cost. The real tradeoff there is making a factory and walking engies around to get said reclaim compared to making an engie station that then flies around.

The engie station runs the natural loss of doing nothing while traveling, followed by the risk of being shot down and restarting the idle period, and then needing to travel anywhere else to do something productive once the original reclaim is grabbed.

Engie facs can have engies traveling die as well, but they can also be used to build things when needed and there tends to be a natural line of engies traveling to a location that minimizes the impact of a random bomber or mantis catching a few.

I'm not saying that kennels need to be able to do this stuff efficiently, but I don't really think this change causes this to be some new meta. It just isn't a decent utility relative to other gains kennels bring you staying at home and making engies for reclaim instead.

@tagada said in Possibly how to make kennels better:

If they would cost 0 mass the penalty for flying across the map and trying to collect reclaim and dying would be too small. They are not meant for that so there is no point in encouraging that.

No one uses drones to "fly across the map".
No one uses drones to reclaim unless it's an experimental wreck in their immediate area.
They use and drop engineers to do that.

They can't attack-move/patrol reclaim.
If they could, that would encourage the use of their "infinite range".

Their slow speed and their low HP - that's already a low enough trade-off to not encourage their use outside of bases.
That's already a trade-off for an ability they should have.
Tell me, when was the last time you saw a Kennel drone outside of a base?

As much as the rebuild time and cost reduction for the drones was appreciated, they're still not in quite the spot they should be.
Then again, I may be a little biased toward them.

~ Stryker

What it matters SCTA Air Engies are considered OP nerf pls for what Tagada is describing they are also faster through and to a degree cheaper.

Pros use kennels to assist fatboy on the frontline to make units.