Increase vision & radar ranges of all units by some 10-20%

Let me illustrate the airgame experience.

I always add land scouts to a land army, air scouts to an air army, cruisers and carriers are navy radars.

No, build scouts. They are super cheap

+1

Vision drives me nuts in this game.

JusT bUiLd sCoUtS iDiOt

I like this suggestion and had similar thoughts in the past. The vision is even more annoying given how the engine works and things that are supposed to be in vision range actually don't show up or do so with a big delay.

It will nullify Cybran tech if you increase vision. Especially T2 mobile stealth and ACU stealth for kiting.

@edtjuh said in Increase vision & radar ranges of all units by some 10-20%:

It will nullify Cybran tech if you increase vision. Especially T2 mobile stealth and ACU stealth for kiting.

not really, because like Tagada said, things actually showing up in vision/radar range is extremely delayed. If anything, increasing the ranges would make it more like how it should be at the moment

@bulliednoob

Units leaving vision/radar range also have a similar delay, still appearing and able to be targeted. This especially will make dropping successfully harder as it means that much more time to lock fighters onto a transport as it leaves vision

What is the skill in having the big air blob, sending air around to find tiny enemy air blob, and then never losing intel so you always win the fight? Why is that more skill than properly managing spy plane intel alongside your air blob?

What about strat rush micro where you need several spy planes to give vision? Why is having to micro that rather than just a blob of asf that can see and catch anything that threatens the strat less skill?

I've seen players kill the critical air units with less ASF (air fights) or a few ASF (smart targeting on strat) which seem like vastly superior signs of skill than just forever having good intel so game reverts to even more macro scaling maximization.

maybe increase vision of SCOUTS? or maybe make air scouts same speed and turnrate as inties so you can use them together with inties...

IMO It's just actively the opposite direction I'd want the game to go in right now. Giving more intel makes the game even easier and simple unless it comes along with lots of counter-intel options so you can actually play around it. I don't get what skill more intel is supposed to allow for except for making it even harder to win with the lower mass concentration or make some units like mongoose and hoplite (and in turn snipers) more significant.

@zlo

Good idea but that should be a toggle, otherwise you’re nerfing scout planes… but maybe now that control groups are better you can just tell a scout plane to assist an interceptor then just put your interceptors on a control key and micro that

Let's change circles with unit pov direction, so he will see only what is in from of him xD

@ftxcommando said in Increase vision & radar ranges of all units by some 10-20%:

IMO It's just actively the opposite direction I'd want the game to go in right now. Giving more intel makes the game even easier

I oppose this change.

Scouting is already overpowered in FAF. Take a game like Age of Empires 2. There are no air scouts. If your opponent walls you can't even see what he is doing. You get only 1 scout for the early game and if you lose it then you are shit out of luck.

The only change I would make is to increase the water vision on t1 and t3 scouts. I sometimes fly a spy plane directly over a nuke sub/sub/commander and the plane doesn't even scout them. For some reason the water vision on scout planes is pathetic.

@accidental_aeon said in Increase vision & radar ranges of all units by some 10-20%:

I oppose this change.

Scouting is already overpowered in FAF. Take a game like Age of Empires 2. There are no air scouts. If your opponent walls you can't even see what he is doing. You get only 1 scout for the early game and if you lose it then you are shit out of luck.

The only change I would make is to increase the water vision on t1 and t3 scouts. I sometimes fly a spy plane directly over a nuke sub/sub/commander and the plane doesn't even scout them. For some reason the water vision on scout planes is pathetic.

If scouting is overpowered, then nerf scouts, not vision.

I think we've seen enough - we're picking this up. It won't be for the next release as it requires manually tweaking all the units in question. The only question now is: by how much should they be increased? We can talk about balancing units (like scouts) afterwards.

I'd suggest a blanket (absolute) change rather than a % based change - i.e. the issue I see is the lag between two units moving towards each other and this being picked up. This delay will be affected by the units' speed, rather than the visual range, hence the delay for the unit to show up once it is inside visual/intel range is the same whether you're talking about a unit with poor vision and intel or large intel/vision.

I also think it should cover buildings that give intel/vision, since they're also affected just to a lesser extent, with buildings getting half of the boost (since the building wont be moving, so the maximum potential distance a unit can move inside intel/visual before being spotted is reduced to just 1 unit's speed, instead of the combined speed of 2 units).

T1 tanks move between 3.4-3.7 speed while T1 mobile arti are <=2.9 speed. I'm assuming (without doing detailed testing to confirm) that there might be a lag of 1 second between a unit entering vision/radar and being picked up as such.

That would suggest an increase of around 6 might mean you almost always have visual/intel of a unit that you would expect to at current ranges. However it would also lead to lots of cases where you get visual/intel outside of the current range. I'd therefore go for half of this to strike a balance, i.e. a +3 increase to visual and intel of all mobile units, and then have structures having half this (so +1.5) benefit.

I also don't see a big issue with scouts or radar benefiting from such a blanket increase - in relative terms it'd effectively be a nerf by being an absolute increase to all units and hence meaning those units function slightly better without radar/land scouts than before.

I disagree on mostly all points on this. This is supcom which has its roots in ta, and shouldn't compare ourselves to a game like aoe2 which is a totally different game with a totally different lore. Back in those days you could see your enemies hours before you could shoot at them. Supcom has high tech weaponry that can shoot farther then they units can see. Playing ta you often got shot at and not seeing what was shooting at you.

If changing Intel is needed, this is not what needs to be done, if anything we need to reduce vision. If players want a balance like aoe2, they need to play that game (sorry harsh)