@moses_the_red come on - you're taking it out of context. You're free to make a mod, ask FtXCommando (or whoever has authority over that) to have it ranked, etc. The same has been done for RksExplosions - it is therefore possible. Problem solved for that single map. And that is what it should be - a solution for a single rather unique map.
I'm not stepping into the question of whether or not Hives should actually be changed or whether they're even OP. I don't know, haven't thought deeply about it, haven't watched the replay at the beginning of this thread. I know its a complex topic, and I'm not going to wade into that unless I have a position that I feel makes sense and is strong. I don't, so I'm not commenting on that. I'm commenting on the notion that we don't need to balance turtle maps because there are a TON of good turtle maps, and they tend to be the dominant type of map in team play.
Gap (and Astro) is a unique type of map where all the players are heavily concentrated along with 8x mass / player and therefore:
- Raiding is impossible when both teams are decent
- Expanding is not actually required because you start with 8x mass
This is fundamentally different to even Isis:
- There is reclaim in the center that you have to go for
- There is enough space for raiding and / or drops because the mass is not 100% concentrated
- Because there are (relative to gap) many options one has to take them into account and that costs resources / skill
I've played a lot of gap and Isis. Those are some of my favorite maps.
You can drop on either. There is reclaim in the center on both that you need.
I do consider Gap to be more turtley than Isis, but its a difference of degree, not kind. They're both turtle maps.
Most importantly, I assume the tactic described in the original post will work on any turtley map. I don't imagine that there is some feature that only Gap and Astro have that Isis or Four Corners would somehow lack.
And with regard to your argument about 'me and my friends all think that' - the same can be applied to you, me and my neighbor.
Except that I'm claiming we should try to balance around all popular maps to the extent possible. I'm not saying "Fuck 1v1 maps", I'm saying we can balance both.
Without being disrespectful to anyone, that is generally a good description of how a community works with the assumption that you consider the people in the community to be your friends.
And I'd really like to end with the casual vs competitive type of players. But, we've been there and we didn't agree on that so I won't.
Dude, you act like I somehow made all that up, but its a common thought stopping cliché in here to say "We don't balance around Gap". This isn't me coming in and starting trouble for no reason. This is me coming in here and pointing out the absurdity of the notion that we don't have to care about how the game plays on the maps that are most played.
People act like I'm somehow the cause of the "casual versus competitive" player thing, but I'm not. I'm just pointing out that the community here has become so toxic that disregarding the class of maps that casual players play is now taken as sage-like wisdom.