Do not add new colors - discussion

some of those colors are too good to not add, add new colors i think its great

@wikingest said in Do not add new colors - discussion:

@ftxcommando said in Do not add new colors - discussion:

There’s 100 8v8 games a month if people want an actual number attached to it. There are like 3,000 6v6 games and 7,000 1v1 games a month

Where does those numbers come from?

FAF api

@deli

I agree, if we cannot add more colors could we at least vote to replace some of the existing colors with a few of the new colors, there is a particular shade of teal that looks superior to the current one imo

@wikingest said in Do not add new colors - discussion:

But having only 16 colors, means that last one can end up with very similar color to his neighbor. And that is a problem.

The whole point of choosing only 16 colors is that you could choose ones that are NOT similar to each other. With 19 colors, you HAVE to have some colors that are similar to each other, because 19 is too many.

Since everybody keeps suggesting, here is mine. I modified Jips, because pink / dark pink combined with purple / dark purple will not work and we still have teal available as distinct, easy to call out color:

• red / dark red
• blue / dark blue
• green / dark green
• teal
• orange / brown
• yellow / dark yellow (mustard)
• bright pink / dark pink = bright purple / dark purple
• white / grey

Compared to what we have now (which is 19 colors):

• number of greens/blues/teals reduced from 7 to 5
• number of pinks/purples reduced from 4 to 3

The rest basically is still the same. If you want, throw in lime as an additional color, so the last person in a 8v8 can still choose between 2.

If those colors are properly chosen, they should be easy to distinguish and call-out for any non-color-blind person, and i am still in favor of giving color-blind people slightly (!) altered color sets, where only the problematic colors are changed. For example for the red-green-blind set you would slightly change greens and reds to have different brightness or mix in slight other colors.

@katharsas said in Do not add new colors - discussion:

The whole point of choosing only 16 colors is that you could choose ones that are NOT similar to each other. With 19 colors, you HAVE to have some colors that are similar to each other

Some people here really think that players are taking the time to thoughtfully consider whether their color is too close to the color of their neighbor

That's never going to happen consistently

The best thing is if every color is distinct from every other color

That is easier to achieve with fewer colors

@katharsas said in Do not add new colors - discussion:

The whole point of choosing only 16 colors is that you could choose ones that are NOT similar to each other. With 19 colors, you HAVE to have some colors that are similar to each other, because 19 is too many.

Definition of similar can depend from person who is looking, of course. But after looking at those 16 colors propositions above, I totally see similar colors. From my eyes, we do not have a proposition without similar colors jet. So it is pointless and harming to reduce the number of colors.

@arma473 said in Do not add new colors - discussion:

Some people here really think that players are taking the time to thoughtfully consider whether their color is too close to the color of their neighbor

Players totally consider neighbors colors (thoughtfully, I bet ) to avoid too similar color. There is even discussions and negotiations about this in lobby. There is no doubt about it. Now what is the exact statistic about it, or your definition of consistency, I do not know. But as I said, I have not seen 16 colors without some similar colors.

And if really there is a player who does not consider colors. He eather does not have problem with it or he will very soon notice that he should start considering about colors. This is not a reason to create a problem into the game for others (by reducing nombre of avilable colors).

Because we have sorta similar 16 colors we should make the problem worse by introducing even more sorta similar colors? Because it makes no sense to say having smaller intervals on a color wheel between colors would make it any easier to do the intended purpose (identification) behind colors. If it’s a problem with 16 colors, it’s still a problem minimized at 16.

https://youtu.be/EbtLPnvT3Zo

Lets just stay old and boring

@wikingest said in Do not add new colors - discussion:

Players totally consider neighbors colors (thoughtfully, I bet ) to avoid too similar color.

I am a player. And I've never thought of that during my entire player career.

@jip said in Do not add new colors - discussion:

Players totally consider neighbors colors (thoughtfully, I bet ) to avoid too similar color.

I am a player. And I've never thought of that during my entire player career.

Well, if you take everything out of context also...

Your comment followed my comment, that followed arma's comment, that followed Katharsas comment, that followed my comment. And now I am following your comment. It seemed clear to me, that I was talking about "some" players, not necessarily "all" players. I even pointed out that I do not know the exact statistic about it. So I dont see conflict with your last comment... I dont really see on what should I answer here...

It is not hard to check colors, as those are even shown on (mini)map while you are in lobby. The statistic about people checking colors or not might be little bit interesting, but here are more than one reason to not reduce the number of colors. So it could be more interesting to get statistic about people wanting to reduce the number of colors or not. If making a vote, rather about "reducing the number of available colors or not". I am not sure if vote about "considering neighbors colors or not" would add much to the discussion. Cheers

My main issue with more colours being added is I expect it'd increase games where similar colours are chosen making it harder to tell them apart.

However, a potential solution to this could be to have an automated message that appears in the game lobby warning if players have similar colours (so people are less likely to start a game where this is the case).

At the risk of increasing an already crowded area, it could be added to the observers box similarly to how team scores are displayed, but in red text so it's noticeable.

This assumes it's possible to tell what colours have been chosen by players in the lobby.

An automated message doesn't seem like a good solution, because you can just ignore that. We could maybe alter the logic that already limits your color choice based on what colors the others have already picked. Just now we would not only block the picked colors, but also similar colors.
So you could have three shades of a light green, but when one is picked the other two also disappear from the color picker.
The only downside I see is that this could make it harder for colorblind people. If we go through with offering a "colorblind mode" then it should not be a problem anymore.

I will draft a template for color blind presets for the 3 major types of color blindness (deuteranopia, protanopia, and tritanopia) which will hopefully get implemented as an ingame option. Note the current colors will likely stay the same, and there will be 3 presets that change the colors for the user specifically.

@thecore This is a good set. (minus the black)

What if players were unable to choose a color until they set their team number.

Then, each team has a set range of colors to choose from. So team one has dark red as an option but not light red. Team two has light red as an option but not dark red. This way each team could not choose very similar colours. You couldn't get light red and dark red on the same team.

If my team has a dark red player and the enemy has a light red player, my team will understand who I am talking about if i say "red go mid please" or if i say "about to snipe red".

I believe changing the colors will give the game a nice refresh to the game but ffs its not hard to make the colors different, make them lighter, muted, saturated or darker.

Here is an easy to understand graph. We have 4 blues. We could just use Exciting, Friendly and Professional (Regular blue, Light blue, Dark blue).

It's god awful to argue we can just call colors "teal, aquamarine, jade, polished, salmon" nobody does that and if you try it will trigger alot of confusion on an already overwhelming game for the average user.

It really isn't this hard. If you think these blues look too close to each other, guess what? we can make them even more different!

It really isn't that hard to create different and diverse colors. You have plenty of options of mixing muted, bright, dark and/or saturated versions of colors.

Adding new colors is a plus but it has to be done on a smart manner. Otherwise, you'll just get everyone riled up because you are about to make the game a confusing shitshow.

Who event wants 3, god forbid 4 blues? Why?

Does choosing the bright but saturated red color make you a connoisseur of the exquisite art of expressing yourself by choosing the color that represents your inner spirit animal or what? Does sending your professional 4th shade of green into the enemies slightly desaturated (but not quite brown) orange base make you a collaborative map-painter, such that your are creating an interactive piece of modern art by mixing units such that the resulting composition makes you think deeply about the world of shapes and abstractions? Does anybody suffer torment from the idea of having to paint themselves and their units with the brush of a color that has been excluded from the cool color space club that is currently en-vogue in the most accomplished circles of the Illuminati?

Colors are in this game to easily distinguish and call players out. And as long as the available colors do no induce eye cancer, that is what they should be selected for.

@blackyps The reason I suggested an automated message rather than automated restrictions is that as this now massive thread demonstrates the choice of colours is very contentious - some people want more variety (e.g. to be able to choose from lots of similar shades of the same colour), some people would favour less variety in order to increase contrast between colours, and some people want things to stay the same (which is now looking by far the most likely outcome given the lack of consensus).

Personally I'd prefer an automatic restriction like you mentioned where if a colour is chosen you can't choose another similar colour, but that clearly disadvantages people who feel strongly about being a particular colour no matter how similar to another player. Since there's no overwhelming majority in favour of a 'reduce colours to improve contrast' approach, I thought a prompt could be something that doesnt disadvantage anyone (with the exception of dev time required to code it in, and I have no idea how much or little that would be), and so might be an agreeable compromise that is an overall improvement if it was a low effort enhancement.

It's effectively applying a nudge theory/principle - you prompt people to change the colour, without forcing it. Those who feel strongly about being the colour they want dont have to comply. Those who don't mind are likely to change if requested by someone who does mind. Those who prefer no similar colours but don't think to check (myself included) would similarly change to avoid a clash.

Can we put all this forum discussion effort into a nice drama topic instead of this? Would be a lot more fun