@blackheart said in Downsides of the Advanced Strategic Icons mod:
Since you had the courtesy of quoting me, ill respond:
The quote from my UI mod guide is "Advanced Strategic Icons: Extremely strong NOT recommended. I would go as far as saying that this mod will completely destroy your ability to improve past a certain level."
In the intro to my guide I write the following: "my focus will be the importance and the impact of those mods on your improvement in 1v1".
Why does your post then keep going on and on about some senton lategame that my post is clearly not intended to care about? Frankly, I dont give a rats ass if there are senton mods that make you perform better on sentons, thats why I didnt got into details about certain eco sharing mods etc. (remember that sentons and 1v1 has basically 0 common ground) The "certain level" I mentioned is also not something low like 1500, 1900, whatever 1v1 rating, since the competition and level of play here is low enough for icon mod differences not to be the deciding factor for a long time. Why I wrote it so strongly is that if you get used to it early on, you wont want to switch to something else once it starts mattering. Choosing the right setup at the beginning has great advantage once you climb really high.
As some others have responded, and as I have myself in the UI mod guide thread, on high level 1v1 it matters exceedingly much to be able to quickly see, target, and analyze unit comps or base structure comps of your opponent. If a mod obfuscates that my opponents mixed army (any army at t3 stage will be mixed in a 1v1) has a t3 mobile arty in it and a t3 MML, its garbage. If a mod obfuscates that the firebase has a misplaced massfab next to a radar cause the radar icon for some reason suffers from obesity, it is garbage.
Yeah that is the most common argument against the mod that I have read and, with the help of FTX above + some good reference pictures, I can now at least understand why it can make reading dense base layouts more difficult.
If you have the time, could you post a comparison picture of the same thing happening to armies? It would give future icon mod makers a great starting point off what to avoid.
If a mod makes the simple situations even simpler to tell apart, but obfuscates the relevant situations with complex army comps in an unordered base, its absolutely useless. Its very easy to adapt to the simple situations, and not easy to adapt to the difficult ones. If you manage to make a mod that does both, everyone would gladly use it.
Thats the reason why for example myself & petric and some other top players use private mods. Personally I use a very subtle highlighting for SMD/SML/TML/TMD icons. Your assumption that we are afraid of useful UI layout choices is not correct, its just that the strategic icon mod isnt useful for a good 1v1 player.
That you do use different SMD/SML/TML/TMD icons is very interesting though. That you do is of course neither a point for nor against ASI but if nothing else, thanks for sharing that!
Then to clear up some confusion or fear that I think I am seeing in your post: The small icon version of the icon mod wont stop you from being good at sentons, no worries. The things it damages are mostly not relevant to sentons, and probably the small benefits offset the damage on sentons. My UI mod post however was aimed at being good at 1v1 and being good at FA in general, neither of which senton has any correlation with. In general, if you are confident that its good for you, just keep using it. If you arent sure, just dont use it, not a complex decision.
My main motivation for this post was that I wanted to know if I could recommend the mod to any new players asking questions cause, even if it helped me to get a grip on the icons a lot quicker, I don't want to hamstring their growth in the long term.
Yet, now being semi-competent on Sentons I never really saw the downsides, only the upsides of the mod, while it was also being trashed with a fervor that I haven't seen for any other mod in the game.
Why did I choose seton pictures as a comparison then? Cause those were the games I had lying around and I assumed it would be reasonable test case. Seemingly that was one of the things that "I didn't get".
If you have the time to make some additional comparison pictures that show the downsides of using the mod, especially for armies, I would love to see them!
As mentioned above, I think it would be good to collect all that information here so that future icon mod makes can have something to build off on
Finally I'm waiting for the new generation of top players who are using the icon mod, just as im waiting (since 2013) for any new generation of top players at all. For some odd reason it has not happened yet, but I'm sure the next 8 years will be different.
I too want a larger FAF playerbase