Time to become more friendly to new people as a game

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@biass Fair enough. All i wanted someone in rule and people to say: "yes that is good idea".
And ill be slowly doing. And if you guys did not notice such a simple and important thing then those 3 people are working in a wrong direction.

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@banani said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:

then those 3 people are working in a wrong direction.

-- This is only my personal opinion! --

Banani, these are the 351 issues we have to solve at he moment:
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues

These are the fixes/improvements we have done/planed for the next update:
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pulls

Please tell me what PR (pull request/fix) is going in the wrong direction and is less important than CoOp balance.
Also tell me what you think is a 'more' important issue than coop changes.

We can add you coop balance proposal as issue number 352 to github.
Then we can decide the prioriy like bug fix, code optimizing, enhancement or just nice to have.

After this you only need to find someone who knows the coop mission, has time and want to fix it.

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@uveso I am sorry for not answering all the questions you might come with. I can do it myself. I did not come here to whine how you ignore such a big issue, i came here to deal with it. Also, i do think that all those things you work on besides tmm and bugs are less important. Here are my arguments: #1 All of the people i made to play faf and all of the people that were dragged to this game by friends and yt channels have no clue how to play it. #2 All of our existing tutorials may be good but hard to come by in faf so if you want to play youll have to make RESEARCH instead of a tutorial and easy coop difficulty that will make you utilise reclaim and HQ mechanics that are not easy to understand as someone who has never met them. #3 As i already said, coop is a part of a decent content faf can offer besides team games with a lot of toxicity #4 Coop is a good tool to make people learn faf and as a result less discrimination against gray ratings.

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https://github.com/FAForever/fa-coop & https://github.com/FAForever/faf-tutorials Are going to be the main Repositorys to look at posible for this going forward.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" - Spock

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@banani

-- again only my opinion --

You mentioned we are maybe working in the wrong direction.
So i asked you for a priority list and where do you want to place the coop change.
Like we have 350 issues, and coop should be solved at place 100

But i got as answer;

  1. people are clueless about the game.
  2. totorials are crap.
  3. coop is a part of the game.
  4. Coop is a good.

How can this help me to make a priority for the coop change ?
(There is no need to convince me that we need this change)


Btw you don't need any approval to make an issue or pull request on Git-Hub.
Just make your changes, upload it (PR) and we will test and likely merge it to the game.

You could/should also talk to speed2CZ, since he made many coop changes.
In case you need help on Git-Hub, ask me.

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@uveso Banani is not requesting anything,he is mostly gathering opinions about it's implementation,he wants to get the approval or at least some sort of "green light" so it doesn't get ignored or thrown out if he actually is going to make it all alone,which is kindda reasonable considering it's a big project.

queuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko

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@uveso said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:

Btw you don't need any approval to make an issue or pull request on Git-Hub.
Just make your changes, upload it (PR) and we will test and likely merge it to the game.

You could/should also talk to speed2CZ, since he made many coop changes.
In case you need help on Git-Hub, ask me.

That is all i wanted to hear. An btw i already mentioned few times and in a reply to you that i will make it myself with a few volunteers so there is no need for making a priority for it. Cant you just rate it yourself? I am not familiar with faf development.

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I am not sure if it's a great idea to change the difficulty of an existing difficulty level for the co op maps that we already have. I think it would be much better to create new difficulty level - beginner and adjust the co op maps accordingly to it. I am not sure if it's possible, would need to ask Speed2.

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@Uveso you mention that their is 350 issuse on the FA Repo but alot still date back to 2014 and probs alot of the issuse could be closed of.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" - Spock

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@tagada I suspect that in order to make a proper tutorial and coop for newbies, i need to make a new mission to implement all of the ideas. Also easy coop is not exactly for newbies. they are playing it few hours a game which is not good, i plan to make small additional task for example "go reclaim that" or "go kill it with navy". Those tasks can be called tips for newbies. And make a medium difficulty as a place to play with friends regardless of they rating. And leave hard as it is now.

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Are we talking about the coop version of the campaign missions here?
While I agree that many of the new non-campaign coop missions can be quite tough, I don't remember the default coop missions to be particularly challenging. Am I just misremembering?

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@cheeseberry Yes. Faf version of campaign. They are not challenging, since new players dont know how to play the game and cant handle without tips they are destined to play a single mission for hours which makes them frustrated as a result leaving faf or coop forever.

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I will point out that back in 2007, I grew to love the game by repeatedly failing the FA campaign. I think literally every time I countered a point where the map expanded, I would lose shortly afterwards. It took me like 5 tries to complete each mission, and that was an incredibly fun experience I still recall today. I think some of the changes FAF made to the vanilla campaign could maybe be rolled back (or at least keep the original difficulties, and add the FAF difficulties on top of that [e.g., originally you had Easy, Medium, Hard, but now you have Extreme on FAF]), but overall remaking the coop campaign to make it friendlier/more accessible than the vanilla versions is not necessary.

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Just FYI, one of the top, maybe highest priority for me is to 1) Carry on events for FAF, 2) Actually DO SOMETHING with FAF training, tutorials, and etc. The "tutorial" tab in the client is largely left with a "here, this is how you would do it," and nothing more. Part of what is being done to streamline the process is create a "FAF University Curriculum" rather just post old, Youtube videos and call it a day.

Banani, I will help coordinate with you to get this going as it can only help. Great idea.

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Is it possible to play recorded video in maps to explain concepts like reclaim, adjacency, power stalling, regen, sniping, area of effect?

A "new player" co-op campaign might be a good way to go about delivering this. A single point of focus that teaches the basics that existing players or community people can point beginners to?

I have zero coding ability so im probably not much help with it.

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It kindof annoys me that most of the coop missions are really long. My fav ones are the ones from the og campaign that you can only build some t1 units and finish in like 10-20 minutes. IMO we should have something like that but better geared towards teaching FAF.

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@askaholic said in Time to become more friendly to new people as a game:

It kindof annoys me that most of the coop missions are really long. My fav ones are the ones from the og campaign that you can only build some t1 units and finish in like 10-20 minutes. IMO we should have something like that but better geared towards teaching FAF.

100%

And if each of these missions was designed to teach just 1-3 new skills, then people would have a much better idea as to what skills they need to work on in order to advance through the campaign.

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How hard is it to change the first supcom mission? Could we duplicate it then make a munch of scenarios out of it.

Just change the start to what we are trying to accomplish

2 pgen build order
Hydro rush build order

Then maybe work on things like
Mex upgrades
T2 hqs

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Vanilla supcom campaign wasnt designed to teach you play, and it wasnt designed to teach you play FAF at all. It was designed to slowly introduce units.

It would be much better to create a new campaign or missions with FAF balance in mind and clear things you wanna teach the player, it's possible to combine it with some sort of story so it's a still fun mission.