Add units to patrol?

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You can add in - or change - your own orders, similar to how spread attack works. It would still require some form of interaction.

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@zappazapper said in Add units to patrol?:

@jip said in Add units to patrol?:

It is different - they will follow, and typically walk way behind. But in the grand scheme of the patrol, they'll walk over the route.

The main problem is that once the "assisted" unit is killed, the "assisting" units stop patrolling.

You can assist several and then hit shift+g to spread assist. That doesn't remove the problem, but it will mitigate it a lot.

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@jip said in Add units to patrol?:

@zappazapper said in Add units to patrol?:

@jip said in Add units to patrol?:

It is different - they will follow, and typically walk way behind. But in the grand scheme of the patrol, they'll walk over the route.

The main problem is that once the "assisted" unit is killed, the "assisting" units stop patrolling.

You can assist several and then hit shift+g to spread assist. That doesn't remove the problem, but it will mitigate it a lot.

That's interesting. Just found out about spread attacks, and didn't know spread assist was also a thing. I'll give it a try.

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@uveso said in Add units to patrol?:

If you hae a route and click on it, then you can't get any data from LUA about the route or what unit is using it.
So you can't copy the data to another unit to follow the patrol.

Transporter ferry routes have special c-engine commands to do so.

This could be a way to make this possible in a Ui mod:
Select your follower units and hover the mouse over the patroling unit and press a key.
The keypress will issue a function that reads the unit orders-data from the unit under the mouse cursor
and copy it to the followers.

[Edit] hmm you still need a sim mod for this, you can't issue orders from the UI level without changing the order callback function, and this is inside the sim area of the game. (not sure about that, need to test it)

Forgive me, my coding experience is limited to learning to code in QBASIC in the mid-90s. But when I read...

"Transporter ferry routes have special c-engine commands to do so."

... my first reaction is to ask if patrol routes can then be done with these special c-engine commands.

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It can't - we don't direct access to the c-engine. There is an API, but it is limited as to what you can communicate to and from the engine.

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I see. So things like engie-mod, which has become a core element of FAF, at least in terms of gameplay, is still just an API-level mod that is just always running, as opposed to now being part of the c-engine?

Again, sorry for trying to make you explain this stuff to a coding dullard. I'm just wondering if anything about FAF touches the c-engine. The Nomads faction is just a mod? And what about the LOUD project (I understand that LOUD and FAF are two different, incompatible entities).

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LOUD, and NOMADS, like FAF - just sit on top of the C-engine thru the API provided.

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We only edit the Lua side - we have no access to the C side since we don't have the source code. You can find what we can query / request from the engine here:

Everything else is essentially based on that and written in Lua.

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Ah OK, I get it. So the API is something that was provided by the original developers, and since they're completely out of the game, there's no way to get your hands on the source code or to even ask them to allow you access to more stuff through the API. OK, so that makes sense, and it looks like my question has been answered - it's not even possible from a coding perspective, even if the community thought it was a good idea.

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I would just make new patrol commands then hold shift and drap the points on top of the old ones so they are the same, I've don't this plenty of times with 3-4 points and it's fast

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I mean it’s theoretically possible to patch the machine code, and FAF does a small amount of that (desync fix, and something with range rings I think) but it’s pretty difficult and unfortunately the people who have done it were mostly concerned with the end result and not with writing a good patcher and documentation so that others could follow in their footsteps.

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@veteranashe said in Add units to patrol?:

I would just make new patrol commands then hold shift and drap the points on top of the old ones so they are the same, I've don't this plenty of times with 3-4 points and it's fast

Yes, I understand that there are workarounds, and I, like everyone else, will use those workarounds until there is a better option, but I thought that this was a place to suggest improvements to the game. This is one of my suggestions. Another would be the ability to assist groups of units, like with one click. Maybe a hotkey called "assist control group" or something. So that, for example, your gunships don't stop protecting a group of land units when the single unit you assisted gets killed. The workaround that exists, as @Jip mentioned, is to spread assist, but that's a lot more clicks. Being able to assist groups of units would be a more elegant solution, just as being able to add units to an existing patrol would be a more elegant solution than any of the existing workarounds. That's all I'm doing, suggesting things that make playing the game easier.

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I understand zappa, and I agree - if we would be able to implement it then your suggestion would be better. But we can't, as that part of the engine is off limits. Hence, the workaround(s) 🙂

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You should just stop using patrol.
As Arma said, if you use it for large groups of army units it will just lead to worse formations if the enemy attacks you, since your units will be strung out and not all engage at the same time. The only unit I ever use it for is air scouts, since the preceding reasoning doesn't apply. In rare situations you might patrol some inties over a location vulnerable to drops, but air fighters can end up chasing scouts across the map and accidentally suicide, so it's best to just watch them more carefully and not think "ok they're on patrol so I don't have to watch them closely anymore."
But it's also worse if you use it for engineers than using attack move because they will not stop patrolling even if they are doing nothing, so it's harder to see that they are effectively idle.

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Engine on patrol just breaks trees

I use patrol asf the same way brnk does in a short triangle just when to kill some bombers and you need to look somewhere else

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My strategies are worthy of your criticisms, and many more. However, whether patrolling is a good idea or not, if the command exists, it should function as well as it possibly can.

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@zappazapper No. If it is a terrible idea for any player to actually do it, it's certainly not a worthwhile investment of anyone's time to try to give them the option to save a click or two, just to play worse.

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Corva - this topic isn't about whether patrol is worth it. It is about whether it can be adjusted - and the answer is no.

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@jip It's 100% relevant whether it is WORTH spending time to change EVEN IF IT IS POSSIBLE.
Edit. In fact if it is the easiest question to answer it should be the first one to answer because then the point of even thinking about technical possibilities is moot and a complete waste.
Edit 2: I'm sure it has happened to many of us where we right click with units selected and accidentally give an assist order to a unit instead of a move order on that spot, and so making this ALSO possible for patrol orders would only make that problem happen more often and be ACTIVELY HARMFUL.

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The user interface is supposed to encourage good gameplay. Changing the user interface in a way that promotes bad gameplay would be a bad thing. It is not wrong to consider whether a feature is worthwhile. Ignoring that, just adding something to the UI "because we can" or "because it would give people more options" is wrong.