Astro FAF Version (Player Input Required)

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We have identified a number of issues with the original Astro Crater Battles that players are attempting to fix by uploading new versions. These versions go against vault rules, so having a final solution to all Astro related problems would massively reduce vault overhead and allow our team to work on other projects.

With BRS_Astro’s permission obtained last night, I’m requisitioning an Adaptive Astro Crater Battles - FAF Version. I want to know what needs to be added/kept the same, because I’m not an Astro player myself.

The map will be rated.

My list of changes are the following:

  • Add support for up to max player capacity
  • Add options for (6/10/12?) mex starts (to encompass “Astro XL” versions)
  • Resolve symmetry issues that prevent adjacency in certain spawns
  • Add an opt in setting for reclaim
  • Add an option for the basic linear distribution for midmexs or adding a pseudo expansion
  • Smooth the top of the mountains a little to prevent possible airplane issues (I need to know what is supposed to be “blocked” and what isn’t.

Mention what needs fixing in this thread now so I can add them to the list. I’m hoping this map will be a form of end-all solution so I rather not miss anything important.

If someone could translate this thread to RU that would be fantastic.

Cheers boys

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I used to experience lots of crashes on that map, compared to other maps. I haven't played it much in a very long time. Do you know if it has crash issues and if so, do you know how to reduce them?

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@arma473

I’m not aware of any, I wouldn’t be able to do anything without some crash logs (and someone smart enough to interpret them)

Making a new version would likely solve any issues regardless.

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Is any retexturing planned? I think such a popular map being so aesthetically blank sets a bad precedent

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@deribus I'd be willing to do that. But the hills in the original astro crater are a bit hard to make aesthetically pleasing.

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I received some feedback in the past (on the incident of mass map banning) that there is a small subcommunity of people relying of maps with few decals/textures for performance reasons. Please keep that in mind on rebrushing it.

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deribus said in Astro FAF Version (Player Input Required):

Is any retexturing planned?

No, I could give you a million different reasons why, but ultimately I don't want the playerbase to ignore the map because it's not longer the thing they're actually playing. Hundreds of perhaps marginally better "pretty astro" maps exist but get ignored.

I don't think it's personally worth doing because trying to place something natural looking onto the precise geometrical shape of something like astro triggers the uncanny valley effect.

deribus said in Astro FAF Version (Player Input Required):

I think such a popular map being so aesthetically blank sets a bad precedent

Don't see how, otherwise mapgen wouldn't be popular 4head

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Мы выявили ряд проблем с оригинальным Astro Crater Battles, которые игроки пытаются исправить, загружая новые версии. Эти версии противоречат правилам хранилища, поэтому окончательное решение всех проблем, связанных с Astro, значительно снизит накладные расходы хранилища и позволит нашей команде работать над другими проектами.

С разрешением BRS_Astro, полученным вчера вечером, я запрашиваю Adaptive Astro Crater Battles - версию FAF. Я хочу знать, что нужно добавить / оставить без изменений, потому что я сам не играю в Astro.

Карта будет рейтинговой.

Мой список изменений следующий:

  • Добавить поддержку максимальной вместимости игроков
  • Добавить настройки (6/10/12?) стартовых мексов (чтобы охватить версии «Astro XL»)
  • Решить проблемы симметрии, которые препятствуют в некоторых случаях бонусу пристройки (adjacency bonus)
  • Добавить настройку реклейма
  • Добавьте настройки разных расширений мексов (экспансия, мид и тп)
  • Слегка сгладьте вершины гор, вызывающие проблемы пролета самолетов

Упомяните в этой теме, что нужно исправить, чтобы я мог добавить их в список. Я надеюсь, что эта карта станет неким комплексным решением, поэтому я не пропущу ничего важного.

Аплодисменты, друзья

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Do Astro players actually read the forums?

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They probably don't want to reply because FAF is filled with people who feel the need to be vigilantes over what other people play. I can't imagine wanting to hang around when some 500 rated dude needs to ENSURE I play wonder instead of gap, or something similar every time I make a comment.

Astro told me that he changed his name in discord because people sent him hatemail for making the map, which is reprehensible.

People can just send me a message where-ever if they feel like doing that instead.

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@biass said in Astro FAF Version (Player Input Required):

Smooth the top of the mountains a little to prevent possible airplane issues (I need to know what is supposed to be “blocked” and what isn’t.

Good question. My feeling is that maps with mountains/cliffs which interfere with aircraft should be banned, but on this map I believe preventing bombing (even from strats) is intentional.

It's a long time since I played any astro/gap map however so am not "in the know".

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So what I am seeing here is we want a new Astro that has in lobby drop down menu options for the various mex styles, and reclaim being on or off?

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Yes that is the case. Kind of like an adaptive Astro 🙂 .

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My thoughts (as someone who has spent the majority of their games on Astro - please don't judge!)

  1. On the original Astro there's an issue I've occasionally had where there is some sort of invisible wall that stops commander shots - e.g. I overcharge an enemy building and shoot it with my gun, and it hits some invisible object in front of it (this is in the 'middle' area). No idea if subsequent versions fix it. Unfortunately it's a while since it last happened so I also don't have a replay ID to hand, but thought I'd mention for if there's an easy way to check for something like that.

  2. Some astro variants allow access to the water (from rear of base and from mid), most don't.

  3. There's a '4 teams' version of astro which is a bit like a copy of the astro land being rotated 90 degrees with a larger middle area - I'm assuming the aim of the map wouldn't cater for this. Another variant I've sometimes seen is a 2 teams style with 4 starting locations, where each team's core base is split into 2 craters (i.e. 2 start positions per crater, each crater alongside each other). I've not played this version myself though.

  4. Another version I've only played occasionally effectively cuts off the ocean into 2 parts, by having the core base 'crater' extend to the edge of the map (so ships can't go from one side to another). Most astro maps I've played don't do this, but some presumably would like the option.

Re your query on the cliffs/'ring' around the core base, from my experience it's high enough to cause pathfinding issues for planes (they can fly over it, but can sometimes get caught in the cliff, and if you try and send a bomber over the cliffs with an attack command too near to the cliff it's bomb will usually fire into the cliff). E.g. strats would need to go down the 'middle' to get a clear shot. It's also high enough to block some but not all missiles fired by a T2 cruiser that target something a bit further inside the crater. I.e. to do a strategic bomber snipe you have to send strats through the main entrance of the base. However, t2 bombers can approach over the cliffs and do some damage (if you target further inside). I'd see not being able to do a strat snipe from the sides as being a core part of the design (at least on the 3v3 and 4v4 standard ones - There might be some variants with a larger spawn area where it's possible to strat snipe the opposite end of the base by going over the cliff, but it's not something I've seen or tested).

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A map can't have options that adjust the terrain like I think you're asking.

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We can do 4 by making the playable area smaller. But 2 and 3 are not possible.

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@biass My idea was to keep the suffix - FAF version exclusively for maps that where requested and balanced in coordination with ladder team. Thats why I just wanted to point out, that I would be happy if the new map could be named like all the other reworked FAF versions: Astro - FAF version

I have already written a FAF Creative workflow guide on "How to create a FAF version?!", see first post at the bottom: https://forum.faforever.com/topic/398/faf-version-gpg-unknown-inactive-author-map-rework

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The most popular versions seem to be without 2) or 3) so I'd ignore these (just be aware some people who prefer these versions will probably continue to use them afterwards)

Re the guide on creating a FAF version that reminds me of one other issue - when trying to play with sorian AI on astro craters it comes up with messages about no AI markers.

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Well, this all started because of me making an Astro fix map, so I will join the discussion.

  1. The mountains should be able to stop any missiles coming from the navy (UEF cruiser, AEON Torrent Missile ship, Any T3 Strategic submarine)
  2. Many people play Astro because of its simpleness. There are a lot of remakes that have interesting and natural heightmap, but they are not so popular. So, you can add some diversity to it, but keep it simple. But I think that professionally textured Astro is a good thing.
  3. There is a 6 up to 10 player version. Having an adaptive map would be nice. I support this idea.
  4. The symmetry. Here comes where it started. In the original, the mexes are offset by 1 wall from the perspective of a player, but the map creator symmetry made it symetrical. It is somehow weird when you use the X + Y symmetry option. Don't know why, but the one assigning it will have a hard time xD.
  5. The possible reclaim that can be turned off is a bonus on top of it. It will have a high impact on the game if people play with only 6 mexes (The most popular). I would suggest having some reclaim for both sides, do not clamp it in middle. Normally the side which secures mid gives a lot of pressure to the other team, so monopolizing all reclaim in middle would just boost this. Just make it like in dual gap (Reclaim is divided to both sides and in middle, there is a bit more, but it is not a gamechanger).

That would summarize my thoughts. I hope that the FAF version will turn out well and I hope I will be no longer frustrated whenever I see the asymmetrical ACU spawn on astro.

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@maudlin27 said in Astro FAF Version (Player Input Required):

Re the guide on creating a FAF version that reminds me of one other issue - when trying to play with sorian AI on astro craters it comes up with messages about no AI markers.

I offer my help on the AI markers.

Here are a few more thoughts

map name

If the map contains adaptive settings, shouldn't it be named Adaptive Astro - FAF version?

turn reclaim on / off

I don't know how to turn props on and off - maybe Jip has an idea - but the adaptive script offers the possibility to increase or decrease the values of the props. The current range is 0-300% of the original prop value.
Another possibility to switch reclaim on and off would be units. These can be placed in different groups and switched on or off using the adaptive script.