Is mercy too strong in team games? What you think?

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I could imagine giving mercies bit more hp but a smaller activation radius. That would make it more predictable AA wise. You wouldn't be puhished so hard for mispositioning your aa. But one or two AA wouldn't cut it anymore if there are a couple redundant mercies coming your way. Cybran AA would still be crap but mobile flak might have a decent chance.

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@Tagada said in Is mercy too strong in team games? What you think?:

While discussing if such mechanic is healthy for the gameplay is another topic the main issue right now is that because of the activation radius which is 25 (that's quite a lot, for comparison the vision of an ACU is 26) and the fact the projectiles that AA shoots needs to reach the mercy before it can transform itself into projectiles that cannot be stoped creates the situation where even if you have a lot of aa around you then if it's not between your ACU and the mercies you will still die.

It seems to be both unrealistic and problematic for gameplay that the mercy has basically nil hitpoints, but is still invincible during the most important phase of its attack, which should be the most dangerous phase. So what if we made it into a more realistic actual kamikaze plane? We could give them a more normal amount of hp (similar to what other bombers or fighters would have), a lot less maneuverability and slower speed, but targetable the entire duration of the attack. I am also imagining a very cool stuka-like sound effect for the attack path (about what the activation period would have been, or longer).
I concede this would be a significant change and probably requires quite a bit of testing to figure out the best balance of hp, damage, etc.

edit: to get an idea of the type of sound effect, this clip gets the point across.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W3KDB0yHYM

Also, perhaps you could make it so that the mercy can only begin its attack dive from a certain minimum distance away (30, 35 perhaps?), and the sound effect begins at that point and so it gives a little bit of advance warning of the impending attack.

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Area denial is a neat idea. Personally, I would buff the mercy's fuel/manueverability/health but write the projectile script differently. It fires I think four projectiles? Write the weapon script so that the first projectile hits the selected target but the other projectiles will home in on other targets, if present. This would constitute a comprise in that ACUs could be sniped by mercies still, but only if they are alone and or if the mercy player takes more time and micro (it there are 10 tanks with the acu, each mercy will hit 3 of them, so 4 mercies have to attack one at a time to take out 10 tanks before following mercies will fire all shots at the target acu.)

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My idea - Mercy as a Kamikaze Plane

Have the mercy have stats and behave like a t1 bomber, but instead of a payload it's volatile so if it gets killed in your base it can take things out or it gets killed in the air it will take out escorts or other mercy's, so to use them you have to split them up and attack from many angles.

On the Kamikaze attack run it doesn't transform into projectiles but just flys straight in, like a kamikaze would do. If it survives to hit all the way it does more damage than the volatile explosion, so it still snipes the dumb without aa or the player that got all his aa killed in preparation for a mercy snipe.

The volatile explosion should be enough, ~1500 with little aoe, that you could make a few and try to massively hinder a t1-t2 army the way a few janus can.

The Kamikaze explosion should be enough to snipe a aa less acu with ~4-5 mercy's, and also enough that the same amount could seriously harm a unguarded group of t3.

This version of a Mercy could possibly be used to hit clouds of gunships or asf, sniping mexes or power, depending on cost.

Would probably need a adjustment in cost as well

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Mercies add character to the game. Dont take away the games character! If someone pushes mindlessly without scouting he shouldnt be saved by 100 mass worth of unmicroed t1 aa against a t2 2000 mass investment that requires tons of build power and has literally 1hp and dies instantly if scouted

Every noob deserves to die to mercies once to learn it the hard way, and seasoned veterans deserve to die if they dont do their homework (scout) and or forget the old painfully acquired lessons

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Aeon T1 feels a lot softer than T2. Auroras are easily overwhelmed when cornered and the Aeon bomber isn't that great in helping them. In my 650 rated opinion, Aeon has no "hard defense option" other than the ACU and PD. Not saying Aeon, is too weak, win often enough at T1.

@Tagada said in Is mercy too strong in team games? What you think?:

Here is a working concept for the Mercy as a Crowd Control unit through low dmg over time. Mind you that this is just a concept and the dmg, hp and everything else is a place holder. I mainly wanted to test the visual side of things here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yhyemj-tMs&t=13s

What about making mercy a T1 unit and having this effect, except with a much smaller AoE and damage befitting a T1 unit?

Having a suicide T1 unit could be a costly but effective way to get a "panic hard defense" option they lack at T1.

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@BIG-BENNIS-MAGIC said in Is mercy too strong in team games? What you think?:

a t2 2000 mass investment that requires tons of build power and has literally 1hp and dies instantly if scouted

I don't understand this part. Mercies are 30% cheaper and require 15% less buildpower than fighter bombers, 6 mercies take as much time to build and are cheaper than 5 corsairs (which are not enough 90% of the time to snipe a full HP ACU).

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they win any t1 fight if we take in consideration the mass equal amount and with decent micro.

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My view is Mercies are fine provided that having T1 mobile AA by your commander stops them (in addition to inties). I.e. they should be a way of punishing a player moving their ACU far out at the front with no AA support, or targeting areas with no AA, but no good against a player with AA nearby.

As such I'd be ok with a reduction in their activation range, coupled with a boost to Cybran's mobile AA (e.g. give them increased gun velocity but slightly higher mass cost). However it'd be nice if Mercies could get a slight fuel increase to soften the blow, as I don't see them used often as it is.

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what about the maximum damage system that Mercy can do? Regardless of the number, always leave the minimum remaining health to the commander, at the level of 1500-2000

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@Eternal Well I don't think that does a whole lot to solve the issue, because it will just mean a shift from 6 mercies for the win to 4 mercies plus 2-3 gunships. Though that is actually what is often done already...you send in a gunship or two first to draw the maa/flak shots and have the mercies trailing slightly behind so they still work perfectly, despite the aa.

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i like to use interceptors and scouts to distract aa fire for my mercies but they still bad if enemy isn't dumb

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here are examples

https://replay.faforever.com/14067172 around 11 minutes
https://replay.faforever.com/14228121 around 16 minutes

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My 2 cents. https://replay.faforever.com/14226235
"My units derped/misbehaved even though I had adequate protection!" is the main complaint. Erm... my advice: watch the replay, don't make ground AA and instead make interceptors then position them before your com, build radar, scout, pay attention and then you won't die unless you were seriously out eco'ed. I'm sorry to say this, but if you died to mercies, as Harstem would say, "you suck!".
I'm also appalled that 'high rated players' are griping about mercies. Are you guys just trolling? If not, please provide replays to validate your claims.

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Here's more replays ...
https://forums.faforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=504&hilit=scfareplay

The art of having the same conversation over and over since 2012 xD