Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.

0

The main problem is 1) shit pathfinding 2) small assist range.
It's same shit pathfinding and bad range at all tiers.
Kennels/hives fix both problems, kennels have worse bp but can fly anywhere.

Pathfiding is not fixable, but better range is changeable.
We need a way to contrate bp efficiently in specific area.
2 ways: better range or better bp with same/similar range.
Reuse sparky model and make either

  1. 1.5x-2x range + 1.5x hp with same bp as t3 engi from t3 factoty with 1.5-2x costs or
  2. make 2-3x bp with same range and more hp with 1.5-2x cost.
    It could be tier 3.5 engi it can be produced from factory or 'made' sacrificing t3 engi into other t3 engi, we can even add another cheapish upgrade(800-1000 mass) to t3 factory HQ so it could produce them.
0

You spam out t1 engies to get reclaim and might keep a dozen in base to help speed up fac upgrades/assist in t2/t3 construction with more flooding in once reclaim is sucked up. Anything talking about making t2 or t3 engies adjustments or some other sort of engie won’t change anything about the reason you have like 50-80 t1 engies on many maps.

I can spend like 200 mass and have a factory producing infinite engies to get thousands of e/mass in like a minute. There is no reason I’d ever get anything with more setup cost to do this unless it’s a specific circumstance like an ongoing battle where I need bp with more survivability (navy battles).

If you want a better way to concentrate bp, assist 1 engie to a fac and assist the rest to the engie. Now you have an infinite bp glob concentration near your factory that doesn’t even really block pathfinding much.

Making it possible to combine engies to quickly get t2 in areas doesn’t really attempt to deal with inevitable engie spam so it’s more viable. In fact it benefits from it. But it also has a lot of possible abuse opportunities that would need to be reviewed.

3

@techmind_ said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

The main problem is 1) shit pathfinding 2) small assist range.
It's same shit pathfinding and bad range at all tiers.
Kennels/hives fix both problems, kennels have worse bp but can fly anywhere.

Pathfiding is not fixable, but better range is changeable.
We need a way to contrate bp efficiently in specific area.

Deploy button on engineers
After deploy engineers cannot move and get double range effectively transforming into small hives

No pathfinding - no problem

0

@advena said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

@techmind_ said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

The main problem is 1) shit pathfinding 2) small assist range.
It's same shit pathfinding and bad range at all tiers.
Kennels/hives fix both problems, kennels have worse bp but can fly anywhere.

Pathfiding is not fixable, but better range is changeable.
We need a way to contrate bp efficiently in specific area.

Deploy button on engineers
After deploy engineers cannot move and get double range effectively transforming into small hives

No pathfinding - no problem

Perfect for trapping ACU and other units.

If it is just for Aeon and Seraphim, let them hover a fair distance above the ground and disable their movement and more importantly collisions.

0

@Valki said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

Perfect for trapping ACU and other units.

It's not really different than walking units into the acu to block it not sure why this would be an issue, sounds really hard to actually use this to block enemy acu especially with how fragile engineers are relatively speaking.

0

@Exselsior said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

@Valki said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

Perfect for trapping ACU and other units.

It's not really different than walking units into the acu to block it not sure why this would be an issue, sounds really hard to actually use this to block enemy acu especially with how fragile engineers are relatively speaking.

Normal units are kicked round in these cases. If they cannot move and don't pathfind I don't think they can be kicked.

0

Deployed units are really unmovable. I thought ACU would bump them on way out.
Looks like hard to use but still a problem.

https://replay.faforever.com/13850527

2

Hey I have an even better idea:

Make engineers able to merge intona factory to add their build power to it. I.e. naval fac. Or so. Greatly reduces pathfinding issues. Doesnt that sound useful?

2

Or station them in it. Like in a carrier. So you can get them out and to another one.

2

I really love the idea of just adding bp into the factory by sacrificing engineers into it, though I could see us maybe wanting some upper limit on it. There would be pros and cons such as not possible to raid the bp with bombers or tanks, but also inability to repair the damaged factory. Allowing them to be stationed might go a little too far by giving tons of flexibility plus removing the risk of losing bp to bombers.

0

@BIG-BENNIS-MAGIC said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

Or station them in it. Like in a carrier. So you can get them out and to another one.

Getting raided by an early bomber? Dump your engies into a nearby factory. Boom they're invincible now

0

@Deribus said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

@BIG-BENNIS-MAGIC said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

Or station them in it. Like in a carrier. So you can get them out and to another one.

Getting raided by an early bomber? Dump your engies into a nearby factory. Boom they're invincible now

So make it a feature exclusive to Support Factories.

0

Crunches, crunches everywhere...

Just limit deploy to T3 engineers

Some cost and BP increase also can be done for T2-T3 engineers but this is much more complicated suggestion to balance.

0

advena, if we limited it to t3 engies it would be pointless. The problem is t1 engie spam. And deploying them does absolutely nothing to reduce the raw number of t1 engies that will still mess up pathfinding badly, just slightly to the side.

If we stationing engies in a factory exclusively for support factories it would be much less effective because many people often have massive assist around their hq. So you could just apply it to HQs and support factories. Maybe everything except t1 factories would be ok? Do we want to apply this to nukes or smds or quantum gateways? Not sure, but it would be possible and would have the same kind of effects.

And maybe stationing engies would not be op even for t1 factories if there was a delay period for the engie where it is idled before moving in or out of the factory. Something like 15 seconds each way, or 20 seconds in, 10 out. Just throwing out some numbers. Anyway, this would mean you are still fairly vulnerable to raids, and lose a bit of build time for the ability to station engies.

0

@PheatherNoob said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

advena, if we limited it to t3 engies it would be pointless. The problem is t1 engie spam. And deploying them does absolutely nothing to reduce the raw number of t1 engies that will still mess up pathfinding badly, just slightly to the side.

Indeed, the amount of t1 engineers that reasonably ends up in the lategame needs to be sheltered in a single factory for this to work.

@PheatherNoob said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

If we stationing engies in a factory exclusively for support factories it would be much less effective because many people often have massive assist around their hq. So you could just apply it to HQs and support factories. Maybe everything except t1 factories would be ok? Do we want to apply this to nukes or smds or quantum gateways? Not sure, but it would be possible and would have the same kind of effects.

And maybe stationing engies would not be op even for t1 factories if there was a delay period for the engie where it is idled before moving in or out of the factory. Something like 15 seconds each way, or 20 seconds in, 10 out. Just throwing out some numbers. Anyway, this would mean you are still fairly vulnerable to raids, and lose a bit of build time for the ability to station engies.

Support and HQ sounds wise indeed, good point.

T1, just no, every week there is at least one time I spam out T1 air in the late T1 phase. This should be visible and punishable.

Quantum Gateways... no assist patch could be coming and is better.

Nuke and SMD, absolutely not. If a player is spamming out nukes it should be very visible.

0

I agree that there would need to be some visible indicator how much bp has been added for nukes and smds because it is such critical info you scout for. I doubt we want to bother with something like that, so I can agree with just HQs and support factories, because it's not too big of a problem for t1 factory assist anyway. If they nerf ras sacus I wouldn't have a problem with quantum gateways though.

0

i like the deploying engineer idea or merging them based on tech level using a mass to merge inefficiency ratio so 5 t1 engys become a t2 and 12 t1 engys become a t3 engineer to discourage blatantly spamming t1 engys and expecting a 100% conversion ratio with no penalties